PART ONE
UPDATED WITH CLARIFICATION AT END
We must never again stand idly by whenever we witness someone from among us from among four brethren, from within the body of Christ; who profess to be a Christian, yet advertises himself or herself as a “contender for the faith” and professes to have a “discernment ministry,” attack and vilify and hold to open reproach another member of the body of Christ.
Whenever we see and hear and witness such behavior; be it coming from an individual blogger, radio show host, or ministry, we must take them aside and take them to task for it. We are not called to contend with one another for a faith that has been once and delivered to the saints (Jude 3) which we share with one another (Ephesians 4:5). Indeed, the Scripture is very clear on this, for it tells us to take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them (Ephesians 5:11). If we witness slander and libel being hurled at a fellow servant in Christ, we must call it out, and expose it.
Our struggle and contention is with those outside the faith, not with those within it whom the Scriptures call us to honor, especially if they serve in ministry as pastors, elders, deacons, ministers, and missionaries (1Timothy 5:17). Contending with another member of our faith is nothing but divisiveness and being contentious, which the Lord and the Scriptures both teach against (Titus 3:9-11), because it creates nothing but strife between brethren (Proverbs 26:21, 1Corinthians 11:16). It is clear that we are taught to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men. (Titus 1:2) And exhorted strongly in the following manner, Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. (1Corinthians 1:10)
The Scriptures tell us that we are to examine all things, to be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (2Timothy 4:5) It doesn’t tell us to contend with one another over them, but to examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil (1Thessalonians 5:21).
We don’t have to agree on everything, but on the essentials of our faith, yet we must have deference and respect towards one another, allowing for secondary and tertiary areas of separation where we differ, knowing that each one of us do not possess a monopoly on the Truth [but rather, the Truth – who is Jesus – has us], for if Paul himself who wrote Scripture by the Holy Spirit can write, we know in part and we prophesy in part; (1Corinthians 13:9), and also write, now we see in a mirror dimly, (1Corinthians 13:12); then who are the rest of us to think of ourselves so highly of ourselves that we dare even speak against one another, or treat a fellow servant of our faith as though they were an unbeliever?
Christian Apologetics has historically been used to defend the Christian Faith against its enemies, not to zero in and target Christian ministries over secondary and tertiary disagreements – to Tithe/not to Tithe, Infant Baptism – Aspersion/Adult Water Emersion, Jesus Only/Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Pre-Tribulational/Post-Tribulational, Amillennial, Premillennial, Postmillennial, Preterist, Pre-Wrath, etc., Covenant/Dispensational, Lutheran/Baptist/Reform/Calvinist/Armenian, Cessationist/Continuationist, etc… You get the idea. All of these groups, and many more, have some very differing fundamental views on theology, pneumatology, angelology, eschatology, and other areas, but there is one thing they all agree upon; the Lord is God and Jesus Christ is Lord, and the fundamental principles of the Christian Faith that mark us separate from the “false prophets” and “false teachers,” regardless of our differences.
All the ambulance chasing heresy hunters do is bash other Christians without contacting them about the differences they have with them on matters that a simple phone call or a few e-mails could potentially resolve. One does not defend the Christian Faith by assaulting those who belong to it, and calling them “apostates,” “heretics,” “false teachers,” “false prophets,” and every other reviling epithet in the ledger of slander one can devise, because to call a member of one’s faith these things is to slander them, to vilify them, to put them to open reproach, and to ruin their ministry by public libel. Christ did not call us to do this to anyone, least of all, to our own brethren. We are to engage in the exchange of ideas and God’s Word, speaking the truth in love, and not drawing personal attacks against anyone, but addressing the topic they and we discuss without getting personal.
These people have a zeal but not in accordance to knowledge (Romans 10:2), as Paul the Apostle once had when he persecuted his own Jewish brethren for God, thinking he was doing God a service by destroying their lives and bringing them to open reproach (Acts 22:4-5); much as these brethren do. It must be taken into consideration that when Paul did these things, he had advanced to Judaism’s highest levels (Galatians 1:13-14), having sat the feet of Second Temple Judaism’s greatest sage, the great Rabban Gamaliel I (Acts 22:3). Paul the Apostle was equally Saul the Pharisee, who came from a long line of Pharisees, the rabbis of their day, so he was no uninformed illiterate, but perhaps the most knowledgeable rabbi of the Tannaic Era. And yet, before coming to faith in the Messiah, he committed the worst acts of public excoriation of others he could devise at the time in service to the high priest. What excuse do professing Christians have when they commit these same acts of public vilification and reproach against other members of the Christian Faith in the name of “Orthodoxy” and “biblical purity”?
Keeping away from strife is an honor for a man,
But any fool will quarrel.
(Proverbs 20:3)
Matthew Henry’s Commentary on Proverbs 20:3 puts it this way:
“To engage in quarrels is the greatest folly that can be. Yield, and even give up just demands, for peace' sake.”
Dr. Michael Brown addressed this judgmental attitude towards others on Monday, April 7th’s broadcast of Line of Fire, and said that the wrong attitude to take is to condemn a brother when he confesses to sin (James 5:15-18) or is caught in a sin, but the right thing to do is to help him recover and restore him to the faith (Galatians 6:1). Isn’t that what we’re supposed to do? Even pray for them (1John 5:16)? Why do these people live to condemn others, rather than to be a help to them? The answer is a simple one. What does God’s Word say?
As an example, brethren, of suffering and patience, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful.
(James 5:10-11, see Matthew 5:11-12)
And who thinks that Christ was referring to sheep when He said, “What man is there among you who has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out?” (Matthew 12:11) It was not about sheep that God was speaking here, but about men, made in the image of God!
Because the blind cannot help the blind. They can’t help them, because it is not in them to do it. They do what is in them, so they speak from their hearts. And their works follow them (Revelations 14:13), for their works speak for them – either good or bad (1Corinthians 3:13-15); their works speak for them and testify that they are servants of God or servants of the evil one who accuses the brethren continuously before the presence of God (Revelations 12:10), as he did to Job (Job 1:6-12). For again Christ has said:
And He also spoke a parable to them: “A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit? A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye. For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush. The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.
“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them, I will show you whom he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on the rock; and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But the one who has heard and has not acted accordingly, is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation; and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed, and the ruin of that house was great.”
(Luke 6:39-49)
Do these brethren believe for one moment that they are somehow immune from this behavior because they’re born again Christians? Think again. Were that the case, we would not have the Scriptures continuously and repetitively admonish us to avoid this behavior. One Internet writer makes an extremely cogent point that these so-called self-appointed “discerners” who spend their days waiting for the next salacious tidbit of religious gossip they can broadcast to the world, and slander their brethren in the Lord. She writes:
“Consider this: the word slanderer in 1 Timothy 3:11 is the same word for “devil.” When we slander someone, we are acting like devils. We are mirroring the character of Satan. We can’t walk in the anointing God has for us and mirror the character of Satan at the same time. We just can’t.”
Brethren, I am writing this to you for those who read this, and have eyes to see, and a heart to understand, to whom God is speaking to right now; I plead, please be very careful, because we dare not do to one another what the enemy lives to do to us. Now is time to be truly discerning, truly awake and sober in our thinking and not allowing our emotions to get the better of us. We must see clearly, and not be clouded by a spirit of recriminations and criticisms towards one another. Does anyone remember the warning that Christ gave? That if the light in someone is darkness, oh how deep the darkness! Didn’t the Lord Jesus say that? I quote:
“But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!”
(Matthew 6:23)
“Then watch out that the light in you is not darkness.”
(Luke 11:35)
DISCERNMENT? OF WHAT? WHAT DO THE SCRIPTURES SAY?
The so-called “discernment ministries” are without a doubt, originally well-meaning servants of Christ, dedicated brethren with ministries that have in a roundabout and strange manner twisted the true meaning of 1Corinthians 12:10 to mean the open criticism of heresy, apostasy, and “false prophets” and “false teachings and teachers.” While we are to do this regarding those who assail the Christian Faith, by contending with them for the faith; this is not what Paul refers to in the tenth verse to the twelfth chapter of his First Letter to the Corinthians.
In its proper context 1Corinthians 12:10 is part of a list and description of various gifts (and the ministries related to them) of the Holy Spirit in which “discernment” or “distinguishing of spirits” is one. This entails the supernatural ability imparted by the Holy Spirit within a believer to discern the Spirit or spirit in another person, to determine if that other person is of the faith, because there are people the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons (1Timothy 4:1), of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience (Ephesians 2:2), which is the spirit of Antichrist (1John 2:18), whose ultimate purpose to deny Jesus Christ and His Lordship (1John 2:22, 4:3, Jude 4) and bodily resurrection (2John 1:7), and continual work (1Corinthians 1:18, 21, 2:14).
It is ironic how many so many of these so-called “discerners” who are Cessationist in their theology embrace this gift by claiming they have it and practice it as part of their ministry, because it is this Scripture that they cite to support calling themselves “discerners.” But in doing this, they’re unwittingly admitting that the practice of the other gifts listed here are for today and did not end with the Apostolic Age/Second Temple Era.
To admit and apply one of the listed gifts (they really misapply it, but we’ll get to that in a minute), places them as Cessationists in the untenable and unenviable position of having to defend a belief they themselves deny. This is part of their inconsistencies and part of their confusion.
Just because there are false signs and wonders, false miracles, false spiritual gifts, and false prophets, does not mean that true signs and wonders, true miracles, true spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit, and true prophets do not exist. We are warned to guard against false signs and wonders, false miracles, false conversions, and lying prophecies, but not to relegate all of the miraculous to the devil, otherwise we would not be told to test the spirits to see if they are from God (1John 4:1), if such manifestations had ended with the Apostolic Age.
The greatest fallacy is to believe that because there are false signs and wonders and spiritual manifestations, and lying prophecies, that all signs and wonders, spiritual gifts, and prophecies are of the evil one. Not only is this fallacious, it is extremely dangerous, because the only sin that God does not pardon is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which is to knowingly attribute a work of God – any work of God – to Satan and say it in public (Matthew 12:22-37).
This is why I blanched when I heard the esteemed Dr. John MacArthur attribute this sin to those whose style and manner of worship within the body of Christ he finds objectionable; equating it with the worship of Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, who took their respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on it and offered strange fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. (Leviticus 10:1) Doesn’t Dr. MacArthur realize this about these men, that they did not know God? Whereas the brethren he speaks of so carelessly, whose worship to God he dismisses as “strange fire,” are like Dr. MacArthur, know Christ, are born again of God’s Spirit, and were purchased with the same price as Dr. MacArthur!!!???? WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THIS SERVANT OF CHRIST THAT HE COULD COME OUT IN PUBLIC AND MAKE SUCH RASH AND FOOLISH STATEMENTS BEFORE THE WORLD!!!???? Brethren, we must be very careful what we do and say, especially among ourselves about ourselves and one another.
Additionally, one cannot selectively “cherry pick” one gift for today and then claim the others don’t function anymore. For one, the Scriptures themselves do not make this distinction. Indeed, when Paul writes to the Corinthians, berating them for the factions they had formed within their community – one saying that he as of Paul, another of Apollos, and another of Cephas (Peter); he concludes, though he has written elsewhere that Christ has built his church on the foundation of the teachings of the Apostles (Ephesians 2:20), he is not referring, as Cessationists often misinterpret to mean – the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but even affirms, So then let no one boast in men. For all things belong to you, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things to come; all things belong to you, and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God. (1Corinthians 3:21-23) He even writes, For all things are for your sakes, that the grace which is spreading to more and more people may cause the giving of thanks to abound to the glory of God. (2Corinthians 4:15) If anything, the Scriptures affirm all of these things for every believe in Paul’s day and right up until the present day, and well into the future, when Christ returns to establish His kingdom on earth.
Nor do the Scriptures give “discernment of spirits” the connotation these so-called “discerners” claim for themselves, which is to appoint themselves as assayers of other ministries, and judges of other Christian brethren within the body of Christ to openly mock them, reproach them, ridicule them, and revile them on the radio, the Internet, and on DVD presentations they sell for money.
This is an aberration, it is not biblical, it is not even a legitimate ministry listed here or any other place in the Bible. There is no such thing as a “discernment ministry,” only discernment of spirits, being one of the functioning gifts of the Holy Spirit which He gives us, so we may be able to distinguish between the genuine and counterfeit.
And to add to themselves and what they do “for God” as “contenders for the faith” – a legitimate function and responsibility of every Christian to do with the enemies of our faith, not our Christian brethren (please read Jude again), they claim themselves an appendage of the legitimate role of Christian Apologetics. It is not. Christian Apologetics has never been misused by anyone prior to the rise of “discernment ministries” to attack within the church. There have been great divisions and debates between some defenders of the faith in the past, but what we are seeing today come out of these so-called “discernment ministries” is nothing short than disgraceful.
There are a plethora of self-appointed/self-anointed so-called “discernment ministries” with so-called “discerners” on the Internet today and on radio. These avatars of orthodoxy are known more for their attacks against other Christians than they are for preaching the Gospel. Not a day passes that these people do not attack somebody. Also true to form for them is the fact they seldom if ever contact the people they’re attacking in public. This is one of the symptoms of the end times which Christ warned us about, where men’s hearts will grow cold, because of this lawlessness behavior (Matthew 24:12).
The Scriptures are clear that we are not to malign anyone, and many in the realm of Christian Apologetics have covered that many times their websites. It testifies poorly of the state of people who do such things, for the Scripture clearly says of them, To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. (Titus 1:15) And the Lord prophesied that this would be the state of man at the end time, just before His return, because it will be as the days of Noah (Matthew 24:37), when the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (Genesis 6:5). When the hall mark of an Evangelical is to impute guilt on other Evangelicals rather than preach the Gospel of salvation, then it’s time to move one’s support to a ministry that is helping to bring salvation to the lost, and not destroy the body of Christ from within.
A few weeks ago, Eric Barger wrote an excellent piece about this titled, Is hyper-critical name-calling REALLY contending for the Faith? that covered this ambulance chasing heresy witch hunt that prevails among many so-called “discernment” websites that purport to “defend” the Christian Faith, and Connie/Faith has had very good articles on her website, Faith’s Corner, and continues to have many, as well as Jan Markell, who in an well-reasoned and temperate article titled When Christians Engage In Blood Sport, suffered such vile and vicious personal attacks by these people that her health suffered greatly from what they put her through. No one should ever be put through what these people put this beloved sister in Christ through at that time.
Beloved brethren; this is NOT the grace of God in action – this is the way of fallen and unregenerate man. It is a disgrace and a sin. It must be accounted for and repented of. There is absolutely no excuse for it, and rest assured that if it is not dealt with here and now, it most assuredly be dealt with by God in His time and place of choosing. I don’t say that, the Scriptures do; for the Scriptures declare that The sins of some men are quite evident, going before them to judgment; for others, their sins follow after. (1Timothy 5:24) Make no mistake about it. You either repent of this now before God and make restitution for it by taking remedial action to resolve it with the other person or persons, or you will account for it later when you stand in His presence. Do not be fooled, you will not get away with this. EVERYTHING IS BEING RECORDED. EVERYTHING.
But I would be remiss not to mention Dr. David Reagan, who also was attacked for defending against needless and uncalled for behavior and attacks from these people of other Christians, when he came to the defense of Pastor and Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn in his article In Defense of a Prophetic Voice in Lamplighter Magazine, including an online pdf article titled The Harbinger Debate: Unveiling the Real “Illusionist” as well as others too numerous for me to name here. Chris Rosebrough himself conducted an interview where he reviewed the various charges some of the so-called “discerners” levelled at Pastor and Messianic Jonathan Cahn on a full segment of his radio show Fighting For the Faith on Pirate Christian Radio, titled The Dark Side of Discernment on September 4, 2013 which is still downloadable, as well as the next day’s broadcast titled Circlemaking Narcigesis?, also downloadable here; both of which I highly recommend everyone download and listen.
While exposing false doctrine is a worthy cause, and certainly has its place in the Body of Christ; those who do this must be very careful with this responsibility because they will be doubly judged for judging others, and by their standard of measure they too will be judged according to the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ. (Matthew 7:12, Mark 4:24)
Moreover, these people must be extra careful when addressing themselves regarding doctrinal differences they may have with those whom become the target of their criticisms, and the manner they express themselves regarding them and what they allege is their “deviance” from what they believe to be correct Christian teaching. As Paul warned:
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
(1Corinthians 10:12)
We are warned not to be conceited, but to fear (Romans 11:20b), and be humble in our walk before God and men, especially with regard to the brethren. There are some people who believe they have it all together doctrinally that the possibility they may err in some part is unthinkable to them. We must walk circumspectly and examine ourselves; our hearts and minds, our motivations, our behavior and how we communicate with others. (2Corinthians 13:5)
The biblical manner of resolving doctrinal issues between Christians is not the manner being used by these people, and yet they hide behind the Scriptures as the sole arbiters of doctrinal purity and correct hermeneutics. This is very dangerous, because when if ever we believe ourselves to be the sole repository of Biblical Truth or accurate Scriptural teaching; we have crossed that barrier that cults have crossed and run the risk ourselves of believing ourselves to be something we are not – doctrinally pure and infallible. This is a growing characteristic I am discovering to my dismay among the close knit group of The Harbinger’s critics.
There is a very real danger in resorting to literal minimalist Eisegesis exclusively based upon pure Cessationism applied in re-writing the narrative of another’s work to replace it with clever arguments disguised as a correct hermeneutic in a different narrative, in order to claim that the narrative of that work that is being replaced is biblically incorrect, and its author a “false teacher.”
This is a disingenuous form of false witness appearing to be correct, when in fact, it is fallacious and completely wrong. The critics of The Harbinger and others like them, do this quite often, as they have mounted similar attacks against just about every mainline Evangelical Christian ministry and minister out there; from the Reverend Billy Graham, Dr. Michael Brown, Pat Robertson, James MacDonald, Dr. James Dobson, Pat Boone, Walid Shoebat, Chuck Missler, and many other Mainline Evangelicals.
Christians do not and are not to contend with one another for the faith – we have the faith – Christians are to contend with those who attack our faith. To do differently is to sow confusion and dissensions in the body of Christ, distracting from preaching the Gospel, and discrediting our faith in the process.
In an article titled The Legacy of Heresy Hunting, Duke Tuber describes the methods and motivations of many of these ambulance chasing heresy hunters, I quote:
“Heresy hunting seems to have become quite a popular pastime with many radio broadcasters and internet bloggers. … Hank Hannegraff of the Christian Research Institute took it upon himself to go after widely known Presbyterian pastor and author, Dr. D. James Kennedy. There have been many well respected men and women of God who have been slandered, criticized, and black balled by these so called "defenders of doctrinal purity".
“I personally do not understand why people follow these guys who give spiritual colonoscopies to fellow believers and servants of God. I understand the need for accountability. I understand the need for solid biblical based teaching. I do not understand the need to follow controversy. On my website, taberstruths.com, I have practiced the principle of
In Essentials; Unity
In Non-Essentials; Liberty
In All Things; Love.
“It seems to me that the heresy hunters follow a different creed. It seems to me in their pursuit of doctrinal purity, they end up straining a gnat while swallowing a camel. (Matthew 23:24) I think there will always be those that anoint themselves as God's defenders of the doctrine, however I think that we can overcome their destructive influence by sound biblical teaching on the true motivation of such people and what the lasting fruit of their so-called ministries is.
Mr. Taber continues to write regarding the motivation of these ambulance chasing heresy hunters and self-proclaimed avatars and watchdogs of Christian doctrinal purity. He quotes Paul’s Letter to the Galatians, where he contends against the heresy hunters of his day:
“Gal. 4:17 Those false teachers are so eager to win your favor, but their intentions are not good. They are trying to shut you off from me so that you will pay attention only to them.
“The motivation of the heresy hunter is not to bring you freedom, or cause you to grow in your life. The motivation of the heresy hunter is to cause you to follow them. They want you to look at them as if they are super-spiritual or superior in intelligence to the one that they are attacking.
Next, brother Taber opines that the reason Christian ministers like Dr. Kennedy and others are “attacked was not because they lacked proper doctrine, but because they have a large following and the heresy hunter is trying to attract followers to them out of envy or jealousy. They have found a statement or a writing that they disagree with or want to exploit, and will use it to spread strife and dissension. Instead of looking at the entire message, they will pick apart one small piece and thus try to discredit the person in their entirety. Thus they are straining a gnat and in doing so, swallowing a camel.”
I wish I could quote from brother Taber’s cogent and insightful article, where he goes on to describe the legacy of ambulance chasing heresy hunters, but I can only recommend that the reader go to his website and read the article for themselves. He is spot on and biblical.
These brethren have an issue with Christians who associate with others who do not meet their standards of faith whom they consider heterodox. This is why they are apt to criticize harshly Rabbi Cahn when he appears on radio or television shows not of their liking, or when he meets with people like Glenn Beck and others like him. They forget that Christ met with the very people the “religiously righteous” of His day ignored and avoided at all costs. There’s no difference between the reaction of the “religiously righteous heresy hunters” of Jesus’ day and those every age, even those of today. They claim to speak for God, and stand for “strong biblical truth,” but they have no compassion.
But there is one big difference between the group that Jesus Christ visited and dined with and many of those whom the discernment ministries target – the people with whom Our Lord ate and drank were unregenerate, whereas many of the people who are targets of these discernment ministries are sincere Christians. Many of them may be misguided, some may teach error – I am speaking generally here – while others may not, and in fact don’t, but ministries like the Berean Call, the Alliance for Biblical Integrity, Prophecy Today, and Worldview Weekend have serious theological differences they feel they must make public – and they use their platform to do it and make it look like they’re fighting apostasy in the church. History repeats itself. And so it is in our present day. What’s more, Jesus did not reject, nor does He reject them now – the unregenerate, otherwise no flesh would be saved! Oh yes, Christ also died for the so-called people in tin-foiled hat outfits out there too, in case some think anyone was left out of God’s plan.
Some may call it “discernment,” the Bible calls it “deception.” Apologetics without grace and devoid of love if and when used against other Christians, is nothing but dissension, discord, division, and destructive deception. Apologetics is a tool to be used to defend the Christian Faith and affirm the Gospel of God’s grace in Christ to heal lives and save souls, not as a mallet to destroy lives.
For those who wish to read how to properly disagree with someone theologically without becoming disagreeable, see Michael Rydelnik’s treatment of other theologians with whom he differs on Messianic Prophecies and Eschatology in his book, The Messianic Hope, Is the Hebrew Bible Messianic? to see the proper manner in which this is done. And to hear it done properly on radio, I encourage everyone listen to Dr. Michael Brown and his treatment of Dr. John MacArthur’s unfortunate Strange Fire Conference and polemic, Strange Fire: The Danger of Offending the Holy Spirit with Counterfeit Worship. A good biblical antidote to that book is Dr. Michael Brown’s book, Authentic Fire: A Response to John MacArthur's Strange Fire, and former Cessationist, R.T. Kendall’s, Holy Fire: A Balanced, Biblical Look at the Holy Spirit's Work in Our Lives, and Jon Mark Ruthven’s scholarly work on pneumatology, On the Cessation of the Charismata: The Protestant Polemic on Post-biblical Miracles--Revised & Expanded Edition.
THE DYNAMIC DUO OF “DISCERNMENT” – DEYOUNG & JAMES – ABOUT TO LAUNCH A NEW “DISCERNMENT” WEBSITE
While I was writing the current post, a beloved servant of the Lord Jesus sent me a transcript of a segment of the other day’s airing of Prophecy Today radio program. Prophecy Today is the website of the notorious ambulance chasing heresy hunter and self-styled “discerner” Jimmy DeYoung. It just so happens that before this beloved servant of the Lord Jesus Christ sent me this earlier, I had been doing this write-up on these so-called “discernment ministries,” as soon as I returned to my computer, I read the transcript of this interview which I included below. Excellent. Praise God!!! It will be a follow-up to the article I wrote about chapter four of David James’ book and posted on The Pepster’s Post: A Voice in Cyberpace, titled A PROPHETIC MESSAGE.
I am so grateful for having been warned about this new web link called David James Reports that is being put in place on DeYoung’s website, because this “ambulance chasing heresy hunting,” or “witch hunt,” call it what you like – must come to an end in the body of Christ. We are admonished strongly, Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances, (1Thessalonians 5:19-20) so what are we to expect from a pair of Cessationists like Jimmy DeYoung and David James regarding the prophetic, when all they’ve had to say in the past is to mock and deride it, dismissing them as “lying visions” from “false prophets”?
LADYBUG: Below is a transcript of the interview Jimmy DeYoung did with David James recently entitled, Convergence of Charismatics to Catholicism. I just had to share this with you. I intertwined my own comments in purple:
Jimmy DeYoung: Now we bring to these microphones David James of David James Reports which is a very unique site here on our website, Prophecytoday.com where David talks about issues confronting us in the body of Christ and the rest of the world, actually, that are very concerning as it relates to the prophetic scenario found in Bible prophecy. These are issues that we want to discuss with you. Maybe others will not discuss them. We will approach them very carefully and as humbly as we possibly can because we don't try to set up here in the high tower thinking that we know everything about everything and we're the only ones that are pure as far as Christian ministries are concerned. (LADYBUG: My comments: What other ministries are you referring to is what I'd like to know... only those who would agree 100% with YOU on absolutely everything including secondary issues? Your past actions, your unrepentant spirit, and the conversation you and David are about to launch into regarding those who believe in Biblical signs, wonders and miracles for today speak louder than these empty words!) But, David, we do need to talk to some of these issues, do we not, that are confronting the body of Christ today?
David James: We sure do. It's good to be with you again, Jimmy. We know from scripture that in the last days particularly that there will be issues and even false doctrines rising, actually, within the church. We've often been focused on the attacks from outside the church but we're seeing a lot of developments within the church that we at least need to alert people to so their antenna are up and they can spot certain trends when they develop. (LADYBUG:My comments: The problem is that you guys have been completely reckless about your approach and, if you're going to be in this type of ministry, you have to be extra careful. You have not, to date, proven yourselves faithful to do this work in a balanced manner.)
Jimmy DeYoung: Well, and indeed, Jesus Christ made the same statement in Matthew Chapter 7. He was in His time of communicating to the Jews there in the Galilee. It's referred to as The Sermon on the Mount and one of His statements – beware of false teachers - and then in his last public address to people who had been following Him for 3 ½ years there in Jerusalem just before He would be crucified as He sat on the Mount of Olives, they referred to it as The Olivet Discourse - again, He made that same statement – beware of false teachers and I'm much aware of the fact that the apostle Paul took young Timothy and young Titus and trained them up and sent them to the churches that he had established – some of them, at least – and he was warning those leaders in those churches. They are responsible as the church to keep a pure doctrine and to be custodians of that doctrine. Well, having said that, last time we were together we talked about, we gave somewhat of a review of the new movie that is out entitled Son of God and after it aired, we received an email both to David and myself and the young lady that sent the email, I'll not mention her name, but the young lady who sent the email was very much upset with David and myself. She thought that, simply because we had not seen the film, we could not ask some questions. And David, as I remember, we'd have to go back and listen to our interview but, as I remember, we weren't promoting or condemning the film, actually. We were just simply asking some questions how it fit into the absolute truth scenario in God's Word of the life of Christ here on earth and then we looked into the background of those producers and some of the movie starts in the film. How would you respond? You have a copy of the email that came in condemning you and me for what we had to say about it. How would you respond, just briefly, before we get to our next issue?
David James: Just a couple of things. One is that, obviously, in a 10 or 15 minute interview, we only have time to deal with certain things and the purpose was to bring certain things to the floor that would just alert people. Another criticism was that we hadn't seen the film but I have watched the TV version and I have read reviews by those who have watched both. One of the reviews pointed out that there was very little difference and, in fact, one of the negative things as far as a big screen movie was concerned was that it simply used television production values which are significantly different. So, I do understand what the movie is about. And, one of the things I just briefly – I say that – if you have a glass of water and you drop one drop of cyanide in it, or poison, you're not going to give that to your child simply because it's diluted and there's not much wrong with it. And so, we're just alerting people to the potential problems of things that creep into the teaching of God's Word.
Jimmy DeYoung: And at the same time let me thank this young lady for sending us her concerns about what we had to say. Thank you so very much. And, we will – we did read this email and we will take it into consideration and make sure that we move forward in a Christ-like, Biblical manner. Well, speaking of that then, let's get to our next issue with you David. A few weeks ago in one of our radio discussions, you mentioned that you had been studying and had taught about Roman Catholicism for almost 30 years and we were talking about some recent developments in the Catholic church that have some type of prophetic implications or significance. And now over the last few weeks, you've alerted me to a couple more things that may be even more significant as they relate to the end-times. Let's talk about those things.
David James: The first was something that occurred back in January, actually, and a lot of it was posted, made public, particularly on Youtube in February and that was a video exchange between Pope Francis and Kenneth Copeland. Kenneth Copeland is now the heir apparent to Kenneth Hagin and the leader in, really, the heretical Word-Faith Movement. This outreach from the pope to Kenneth Copeland was facilitated by a bishop, an Anglican bishop, named Tony Palmer, who's also involved with what's called the Convergence Movement. And it was a reaching out from the pope to extend the hand of reconciliation and a possibility of bridging the gaps between Catholicism and Protestantism. And Kenneth Copeland, at a leadership meeting conference, he responded also to that and extended likewise blessing upon the pope and his desire for reconciliation. And then, a couple weeks ago, another person in the Word-Faith Movement, Ulf Eckman, who is from Sweden and actually is the founder along with his wife of a ministry called Word of Life, which is not the Word of Life that I was associated with but it is actually out of Sweden. They founded this 30 years ago when he announced to his church a couple of weeks ago that he and his wife are actually converting to Catholicism and they are embracing the Catholic Church and the Catholic teachings as being from the LORD and what God's heart is and would want them to do and see this unity – and actually saying that the Protestant Reformation is over.
Jimmy DeYoung: Wow! Very interesting statements. Connecting these things to the end-times, David, we were both speaking at a conference several years ago and you presented a paper entitled Converging Religious Forces in the Last Days. Sounds like what we're talking about right now – is a trend that's been moving this direction the last 10 years and you've been watching it. Briefly explain to us what this trend is now and how are the recent developments unfolding?
David James: Because I'd been teaching both about the Catholic Church and doctrine from Catholic sources, actually, and also the Charismatic Movement for a long time, I started seeing some elements developing with both of them that seem to represent a convergence and so I was really almost stunned what's happened in the last few weeks because, I mean, it's just like this was played out exactly like I had laid it out – not that I'm a prophet – but it's just that I had seen this coming many years ago. (LADYBUG: My comments: Interesting that he would add this “not that I'm a prophet” statement in here. In the Amazon comments for his book The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction?, he was challenged in the following way and I quote:
"You yourself said on Brannon's July 12th show at 26:54 the following and I quote:
'I said this a couple years ago that it's inevitable that Mormonism is, sooner or later, going to be accepted as compatible with orthodox Christianity.'
LADYBUG:Now where did you get this "new revelation"? From God? Does that make you a prophet?"
'I said this a couple years ago that it's inevitable that Mormonism is, sooner or later, going to be accepted as compatible with orthodox Christianity.'
LADYBUG:Now where did you get this "new revelation"? From God? Does that make you a prophet?"
But see how he splits hairs here? He obviously believes that God has “revealed” something to him but notice how he attempts to downplay it by employing the phrase “it's just that I had seen this coming many years ago” completely disregarding the fact that “prophets” were also known as “seers”. So, the next step, of course, in his downward spiritual spiral is that he would rather take the credit for figuring this out himself than to give God any glory for revealing something to him. This is where all this hair-splitting leads - #1 to faulty doctrine and #2 to a human taking credit for the work of God... becoming a “glory-hog”!)
And the point of joining of the two seems to be the matter of signs and wonders which we talked about just a few weeks ago. Actually, it seems that the signs and wonders movement both within the Catholic Church and within Protestantism as expressed in especially the Word-Faith Movement, some more extreme groups, this seems to be the point of conversion that's actually heading toward and making possible a supra-religion, a worldwide religion, that will arise during the tribulation period.
(THE PEPSTER’S RETORT & SIDEBAR: This is pure Eschatological speculation. David James is expressing a very well-known and highly held belief that the apostate religion will be predominated by the Vatican in Ecumenical league with the Liberal/Apostate Protestant World Council of Churches. I do not disagree, but this is not Scripture, but a personal opinion held by many within conservative Evangelicalism. I happen to agree with this opinion, but that is what it is. It is an opinion and a theological point of view taught by many Evangelicals as though God’s Word prophesies this, but in reality it is nothing more than an opinion – an interpretation of God’s Word in Eschatological circles; one which I agree with. JB)
Jimmy DeYoung: Now you're talking about Revelation Chapter 17, I would imagine and, talk to me a bit about – and let these eavesdropping on the conversation understand Revelation 17 in this worldwide supra-religion.
David James: Well, we know that the beast from the sea that is described in Revelation will rise up out of the people and this will – this is the antichrist who will come who will establish both a worldwide government and economic system such that no one will be able to buy or sell if they don't have the mark of the beast and he will also oversee a worldwide religion that will be overseen by a beast from the earth who will be the the (sic) false prophet and will create an image of the beast and direct people to worship him. So this is going to be an integral part of the coming world system, this false religious system, and tyrannical government in the tribulation period.
Jimmy DeYoung: Well, indeed, you're talking about, I have taught also, especially in recent days of – as I've been looking at Revelation 17 – when you look there, in Revelation 17, of course, it's talking about the whore, the false church - that's apocalyptic literature, of course, referring to the opposite of the true church, a virtuous virgin church, the LORD wanting to receive a chastened virgin church which Paul talked about, of course. But I noticed that this false church will be headquartered in a seven-hilled city, Rome but, in addition to that, the revived Roman empire in the same location. So both of these entities are seemingly coming together and they're gonna dupe and deceive the entire world's population. My question, and you can re-comment on what I just said but, do you think we're seeing any of this broader acceptance happening already today so that we're even closer to Revelation 17 than we ever thought?
David James: Well, yes, I definitely – I think so – and I think the vehicle that we're actually seeing is this matter of the false signs and wonders that we actually talked about just a few weeks ago in another segment.
(LADYBUG: My comments: I would agree that there are false signs and wonders going on today so this poses a problem. However, the problem with David's argumentation here is that, as a Cessationist, he lumps in all signs and wonders as being false in this dispensation and this is where he goes off the deep end. Above he appeared to differentiate between conservative charismatics vs. the more “extreme groups” but, because he's a Cessationist, he would, no doubt, when probed, deem anyone who believes in the sign gifts or in Biblical signs, wonders, miracles, dreams and visions for today as being in the “extreme” and “dangerous” camp. Proof of that is how he treated Jonathan Cahn for his Charismatic but still conservative views, lumping him in with those who promote the occult and mysticism simply because he's a Charismatic who uses words like “mystery” and employed The Zohar as nothing more than an apologetic tool. If a Cessationist did this, it wouldn't have even made it to David's radar but since Jonathan Cahn is a “Charismatic”, in David's mind, it must be mystical and Occultic and nothing Jonathan Cahn could say would change David's mind. David is lopsided when it comes to critiquing Charismatics.)
David James: We read in 2 Thessalonians 2 that there will be a deception that will come through false signs and wonders and people will be blinded to the truth and accept a lie. Again, this being the touch-point.
(LADYBUG: My comments: Again, false signs and wonders are dangerous – I would agree. However, this “touch-point” argument alone is not a valid one because there are many truly Bible-believing, born again, evangelical Christians, like myself, who despise Catholic dogma but believe signs, wonders and miracles never ceased. And just knowing how David lumps in the good with the bad is what I find dangerous. It's reminiscent of his argument that, because Mormons like and promote The Harbinger, that book should be tossed away and disregarded forgetting the fact that Mormons use the Bible too! Even though David did not specify he is a Cessationist in this short segment, as a Cessationist, he completely disregards signs, wonders, miracles, dreams and visions for today. So he, himself, is an extremist too but in the exact opposite direction. And when it comes to this “touch-point” argument, let's not forget, many Evangelical Christians, including him, have a “touch-point” on some doctrines with the Catholic Church as well, like the Trinity and the divinity of Christ. It doesn't automatically mean that he or any other Evangelical is on a dangerous path to being in lock-step with ALL of Catholic dogma. Consider this: If the counterfeit is taking place today, you better believe that true signs, wonders, miracles, dreams and visions are as well. Satan can only mimic God but he does it in a corrupt manner to draw people away from God. This is where wisdom comes in. The counterfeit can appear so much like the genuine article that it can be hard to differentiate. But David and other Cessationists, rather than admit that God is still doing these things today, would rather invent fanciful doctrines to explain away the true works of God. May we not forget that, even during the tribulation, you will have both types of signs, wonders and miracles – the true and the false - taking place at the same time. The two witnesses will be able to do these things but so will the antichrist and false prophet. Because God's enemies can perform them on some level doesn't negate the true miracles of God. Remember that, at the time of Moses, Pharaoh's magicians were able to counterfeit some of the miracles Moses performed. You cannot legitimately lump all signs, wonders and miracles into one evil basket otherwise you are treading on dangerous and blasphemous ground.) So what you have is the Catholic Church – the fastest growing segment of the Catholic Church is the signs and wonders movement within the Catholic church. The fastest segment in Protestantism is the signs and wonders movement.
(THE PEPSTER’S RETORT & SIDEBAR: Not necessarily a bad sign if it is accompanied by true repentance and the signs of a transformed life and saved soul JB)
David James: And what is happening, and really, been developing very quickly in the last 10 years especially in Evangelicalism as a whole, even those that we would consider strong Bible-believing Christians and leaders and pastors and theologians, there has become an ambivalence toward the signs and wonders movement. Virtually – well not everybody but – a large segment is saying this is a secondary issue, it's not important. We really shouldn't even be considering this a point of contention.
(LADYBUG: My comments: And I would argue that it's important not to dismiss the true miracles of God because of your faulty theology and caution you to be more balanced in your approach!)
Jimmy DeYoung: Well, indeed, Jesus Christ warned us. He said in The Olivet Discourse – I referred to it earlier - He made this statement – that the #1 indicator of His return, not the rapture, His Second Coming back to the earth in Matthew 24, vs. 4, 5, 11 and 24 indicating that deception would be the #1 sign and, of course in vs 24 – through signs (sic), wonders and miracles.
(THE PEPSTER’S RETORT & SIDEBAR: “See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will mislead many. “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. For false Messiahs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you in advance. So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
(Matthew 24:4-5, 9-14, 23-28)
These “great sign and wonders” the Lord Jesus prophesies of here are Satanic in origin and nature, and not to be confused with “true” signs and wonders which are mentioned at the end of Mark’s Gospel, which follow Christ’s true followers, and spoken of in other places in Scripture, and is testified in Luke’s Acts, as well as in the Book of the Revelation of Jesus the Messiah – otherwise known as Revelations, which describes in vivid detail incredible signs that two end time witnesses will effect during the period of great tribulation in Chapter 11:1 and 3. For those who dispute the authenticity of Mark 16:9-20, I then question their claim to believe in the authority and authenticity of the “entire” written Word of God. This is because it does not fit their Cessationist Theology, therefore they question a significant part of Mark’s Gospel. Additionally, as Chris Pinto pointed out in his excellent study of Mark’s Gospel, this is the part of the chapter (Mark 16:14) that contains evidence of Jesus’ bodily resurrection, because it is during this bodily appearance of Jesus three days following His crucifixion where He describes the signs that would accompany the preaching of the Gospel until His return. He neither sets a time limit for the cessation of these, nor does He indicate that they would be exclusive to just the Apostles, but that “These signs will accompany those who have believed.” [Mark 16:17] The true discerning Christian knows how to discern between the genuine and the counterfeit, and does not deny aspects of the Holy Spirit’s work until the return of Christ. The Last Days began at Pentecost (Shavuot), and they will end when Messiah returns. Other than the Apostles and the closing of the cannon of Scripture, there is no other significant difference between the Second Temple Era and this day and age with regards to the gifts and calling of God, for as Paul has written, they are irrevocable. [Romans 11:29] God has not lifted His gifts, just as He has not lifted His calling. To teach otherwise is a tacit denial of the most essential and fundamental of His continued work, because it involves the Holy Spirit. JB)
Jimmy DeYoung: I believe a very important conversation with you today, David. We need to just stay on top of these issues and we're trying to do it in love. We're not trying to offend anybody (LADYBUG: My comments: well, you still have some MAJOR apologizing to do because you have been egregiously guilty of offending some by slandering them!) but they do need to be discussed today, do they not?
David James: They sure do. And, like we said, we're alerting people to have their eyes open, their ears open, watch and listen, so that they can be on-guard and to help win people to Christ who are being deceived and help those within the church who are being tempted to be deceived and depart from the clear teaching of the Word of God.
Jimmy DeYoung: Bottom line – keep your Bible in front of you for all that you may be doing as we await the rapture of the church. David, thanks so much. We'll talk again next week.
David James: Very good. Thanks for having me.
While I understand agree and stand with them in their concern over the Roman Catholic Charismatic Movement, which I have always had mixed feelings about, because I see it as a double-edged sword – one in which God is drawing people to salvation through Christ from the Roman Catholic Church, while at the same time, I see the danger of the Vatican using it to infiltrate the Protestant Churches, many of which are already in an advance stage of apostasy, to undermine Charismatic Protestants and Pentecostals; I take issue with the broad brush these two men – and others like them – carelessly paint their canvass of “heresy” over much of Christ’s body.
Not every Charismatic and Pentecostal agrees with what is happening, and Continuationist Christians like myself see these trends with as much concern and alarm as do Misters DeYoung and James in this interview. So for they to cast their wide net and put all or most Pentecostals and Charismatics into one group of the Ecumenicists is unfair, dishonest, erroneous, and completely wrong. Nor do we follow these false “faith and prosperity/name it and claim it” religious telemarketers, or recognize their teachings as biblical; they are not. And it is not biblical for Roman Catholic Charismatics to persist in doctrines and practices that are not sanctioned by God’s Word.
For this reason, I told a Roman Catholic Charismatic I worked with in advertising as a graphic scanner and she as a paste up artist in 1980 that it was essential for her and other Roman Catholic Charismatics to stop worshipping Mary, venerating saints and praying to them, and only to love the Lord their God. She didn’t listen to what I had to say, but would remain silent whenever I told her that. She wouldn’t argue the point with me, because she knew I’d provide the biblical reasons why she shouldn’t worship and pray to anyone but God and the Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit.
And Charismatics and Pentecostals, or even Continuationists are not all the same, and shouldn’t be classified in the same category. I’ve always known Charismatics as predominantly Roman Catholic in affiliation, though there have been some Protestants who call themselves by this name, but by and large, this is a predominantly Roman Catholic group within the Catholic Church of born again Catholics, though not all of them are born again. So, there are no surprises there, if some Charismatics are now calling themselves openly Roman Catholic, or claim they’ve converted to Catholicism. There’s not much of a “stretch” there.
But Pentecostals are not Charismatics, and should not be confused with them. Neither does being a Continuationist make one either a Pentecostal or a Charismatic. There are very fundamental differences between these three groups. Dr. Jacob Prasch, himself a self-described “moderate Pentecostal,” has written an excellent article on this. It is troubling how so-called “discerners” like these pigeonhole other Christians with labels that do not necessarily describe who they are or their beliefs. Of course, true to form, Jimmy DeYoung and David James do not recognize these distinctions, therefore they are not discussed here. What they did discuss was Ulf Eckman’s conversion to Catholicism.
While I agree with DeYoung and James about this troubling trend among some Word of Faith Protestants like Eckman converting to Roman Catholicism, Jimmy DeYoung and David James are in no condition to act as assayers and judges over other people, for two very good reasons; because Scripture expressly proscribes against this practice (1Corinthians 2:15, James 4:11-12).
And another reason is because of what these two gentlemen have yet to repent of – their contemptuous treatment of Jonathan Cahn, and others whom they have vilified in public. They have done nothing in this regard, and remain obstinate in their denial that they have done anything to harm or hurt Jonathan Cahn and his ministry, and now seek to open a new website to continue similar activities. This is wrong. These two men pairing up again to bash other Christians on a specific link on Jimmy DeYoung’s Prophecy Today website, is like putting a pair of old foxes in charge of the proverbial hen house; nobody’s safe, and everyone is fair game.
I actually went to David James’ site where he’s posted an update to his broadside against Dr. David Reagan last year, basically continuing the same track of error-laden retorts he wrote against Dr. Reagan, but especially against The Harbinger, and even included something I wrote (I’m the anonymous “blogger” he mentions, but doesn’t name), where I liken him and his colleagues to the Inquisition and every religious opposition that has ever been raised up against the will of God in human history, and actually, Chris Rosebrough made a similar analogy to this on his show Fighting For the Faith, in his interview of Rabbi Cahn (On The Pepster’s Post: A Voice in Cyberspace, titled, CHRIS ROSEBROUGH'S INTERVIEW OF JONATHAN CAHN SHORT CIRCUITS DAVID JAMES), protesting about it, trying to present it as an extreme position. Chris Rosebrough understood this, why won’t David James? Or Jimmy DeYoung? Or any of the other critics of The Harbinger?
(THE PEPSTER’S SIDEBAR: A brilliant observation from Ladybug: And, believe it or not, just the other day, I think it was his April 8th broadcast of Worldview Weekend radio program, Brannon Howse made this notable quote which says, "What one generation allows, the next accepts in excess" - a powerful "hostile witness" quote when one considers the source. JB)
Well, it is not extreme, not in the least. And he would understand this if he realized that today’s society a Christian ministry can be destroyed overnight by the kind of theological bone-headed vituperation so-called “discerners” put others through with such callous disregard and abandon. While they may not murder someone in cold blood as the religious opposition did to God’s people and servants in the past in the name of Christ, today with the stroke of one’s pen or that of the keyboard, or a couple of radio and television interviews, these self-professed avatars of doctrinal purity can destroy the life’s work of a Christian minister if they use half of the epithets Mr. James and his colleagues used, and continue to use against Evangelical Christians with whom they disagree like Rabbi Cahn.
What David James and his colleagues do not realize is that he could’ve treated Jonathan Cahn very differently and written his book in very different manner than he did; since it was, and continues to be, just a difference of opinion. But instead of doing that, which is how a true academician would treat a difference between himself and a colleague, another theologian, or minister of God; Mr. James took out his sharpest blade and went right to work on Jonathan Cahn for two years.
David James chose to paint with a very broad brush, and completely redefine The Harbinger and its author into a proverbial heresy corner as a “false prophecy that says Isaiah 9:10 prophesies of the United States and that teaches Replacement Theology in a mystical manner,” and Jonathan Cahn as “a mystic and false prophet and teacher who mishandles God’s Word and teaches fantasies.” This is the gist of how he’s written about The Harbinger and about Jonathan, bringing into question his calling and ministry and whether or not The Harbinger is God’s warning at all to this nation! No Evangelical Christian should ever do that to another, even if he or she disagrees on certain aspects of things regarding certain topics, but David James “boldly goes where no man has gone before!”
This is all they do, and they is how they earn their living. What do you think is worse; to be quickly killed by a firing squad, or to suffer the slow death of defamation and watch one’s ministry and life’s work for the Lord be destroyed by innuendo from one or more of these “discerners”? There is No Gospel in this. No forgiveness of sins. No message of salvation, No grace, No love, No compassion, No understanding, and No consideration of the damage these people are doing to the body of Christ. Lives are being ruined by what they say and write about others. This is pure unadulterated condemnation without any chance of redemption, because redemption is not even in these people’s vocabulary when they paint their “heresy canvass” with their broad brushes in these public on air conversations where they pillory and slander their Christian brethren along with the false prophets and false church of Rome, located within the city built on the seven hills, one of which is the Vatican prophesied against in Revelations, chapters 17 and 18. What these people engage in is called “the death by a thousand cuts,” and it is done every day by these people. Religious wars have begun over these things in the past, and though it is not by the sword that we do battle today in this realm, but with the spoken word and the keyboard.
END OF PART ONE
UPDATE TO PART ONE
Quite often, when one is compelled to address unbiblical behavior, even sin when practiced by another party within the body of Christ, and in the process of doing this, it is misunderstood by some to mean that one is in disagreement with the party over something that is so flagrantly heretical, what happens is that one is then thought to be in agreement with the heresy being addressed – albeit perhaps in an unbiblical manner by that party.
I am writing this update to make a clarification with this article, because I can discern that in some circles this may already be the case, and especially when we are dealing – as we are in these posts – with people who make a living being ambulance chasing heresy hunters who spend their days searching for the latest heresy and most salacious scandal to showcase prominently on their websites and talk about on the radio programs like a bunch of preening and self-righteous yentas.
Let me make this clear to everyone, and I will list these clarifications below in bulleted points to underscore what I mean, lest the ambulance chasing heresy hunters begin to think I am advocating the growing apostasy within the church and the intrigues of the Vatican as we near the Lord’s return. My clarifications are in bulleted points below.
v We need to be discerning. This requires that we be biblically literate, informed, and spiritually awake in the Holy Spirit.
v Anyone who advocates otherwise ignores the many admonitions Scripture.
v I oppose Ecumenicism in all its manifestations and permutations.
v I agree with Misters DeYoung and James above that we must oppose the unification of Protestant believers within the Word of Faith Movement and Roman Catholic Charismatics.
v I oppose with every fiber of my being Kenneth Copeland’s move towards the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church.
v Unless the Roman Catholic Church disavows all its pagan beliefs, doctrines, and dogmas; and its worship and veneration of the Queen of heaven and all its hosts, as the ancient Israelites did; many of which it has professed since it founding, no Protestant Evangelical Christian has any business associating with it in any way, because he/she will be in violation of the commandment not to associate with organizations who go too far and profess another gospel.
v Having made these clarifications, I must underscore that the points where I disagree with Misters DeYoung and James, as well as many within the “discernment” camp; is in the methods used by these in addressing differences of secondary and tertiary theology with other Christians.
v I disagree with them targeting Evangelicals they disagree with or believe to be in error, rather than reaching out to them, dialoging with them, and working to resolve their differences with them before they make these differences public.
v I do not advocate that any Protestant Christian Evangelical dialogue with members of the Roman Catholic Church unless it is for purposes of evangelization – that is, to bring Christ, the Living Christ, and His salvation to the religious lost in both the Roman Catholic Church and to segments of Protestant Christianity. The second may sound like an oxymoron, but it is not, because there are many “professing Christians” within the Protestant churches of America who do not know Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and are lost.
v Part Two of these two posts will describe with more specificity the precise biblical metric that is proper for us to engage in contending and defending our faith against the heretics of our day, and the infiltrators in our ranks and their work of apostasy.
The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined."
The fact is, the Pope officially reigns from St. John Lateran, which is on one of the famous seven hills of Rome, the Cælian, and it is also a part of the Vatican City-State. To deny this, is to deny official Catholic sources and historical reality. So, does it really matter where Vatican Hill or Vatican State proper are located? No - it's absolutely irrelevant. The Papal Archbasilica of St. John Lateran (Italian: Arcibasilica Papale di San Giovanni in Laterano), commonly known as St. John Lateran's Archbasilica and St. John Lateran's Basilica, is the cathedral church of the Diocese of Rome and the official ecclesiastical seat of the Bishop of Rome, who is the Pope. – Wikipedia
"Babylon is a code word for Rome. It is used that way six times in the last book of the Bible [four of the six are in chapters 17 and 18 and in extra-biblical works such as Sibylling Oracles (5, 159f.), the Apocalypse of Baruch (ii, 1), and 4 Esdras (3:1).
Eusebius Pamphilius, writing about 303, noted that "it is said that Peter's first epistle... was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon."
Eusebius Pamphilius, writing about 303, noted that "it is said that Peter's first epistle... was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon."
(Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on "Romanism" by "Bible Christians," page 200, Ignatius Press, 1988)
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