My Comments to and From David James - Part Three

Dave James says:
October 8, 2012 at 10:50 pm
Jose,

I think if you will read my preface again you will see that I began looking into The Harbinger just days after its release the first week in January and discussed the book personally and on air with Jimmy DeYoung that first week after I had read the book through. I personally spoke with Jonathan Cahn in a moderated discussion on April 6, which was aired a few days later – before I had published my article and almost 3 months prior to the release of my book.

I think it is unfortunate that your understanding of the timeline and entire situation is mistaken at several points, while taking the occasion suggest that I am lying about these, although you stopped short of a direct accusation by suggesting that perhaps my memory of this was incorrect. I assure you it is not and can easily be documented.

I’m sure we will have to agree to disagree about The Harbinger, about how we have addressed its many problems that are misleading hundreds of thousands, as well as the matter of cessationism.

Since you don’t know me, you do not know anything about what I have gone through over the last 25+ years to come to my conclusions – beginning with my salvation in 1984 through the ministry of a Pentecostal preacher, and the countless hours I have spent studying the Word of God, studying the history of the matter, researching the developments since the end of the 19th century, earnestly praying and seeking the Lord’s wisdom and guidance over this entire time. We have reached different conclusions, but not because I do not take this, the Word of God and the Lord himself very seriously. I find it unfortunate that you have judged me on this matter in the same way you have accused me of dealing with Jonathan Cahn – but with far, far less knowledge of me and the situation.

Since this is a moderated blog, I hope that the fact that I approved your very harsh comments for public posting at least demonstrates that I am acting in good faith and am open to criticism – even ridicule.

I trust that any future comments will take these things into account.

Dave

Cherie says:
October 9, 2012 at 12:07 am
(Note from Dave James: I have deleted the content of this post at the commenter’s own request.)

Dave James says:
October 9, 2012 at 12:28 am
Cherie,

I appreciate your desire to defend me.

I have approved this post to try to be fair and balanced and open concerning those who post on this here and because I approved Jose’s. (I have only rejected a very few posts over the years.)

However, the reason I have made this a moderated blog is so that I can have some control to prevent escalation of disagreements beyond the bounds of the spirit I would like to maintain with our ministry – and the reputation of ABI as being fair and careful about how we deal with issues.

So, I would ask that everyone involved in this discussion would carefully re-read and think through what they have written before they hit “send.”

The most important thing is not whether or not we win a debate or argument, the only thing that matters is that Christ is glorified so that the enemy doesn’t win.

This is the measure of if and when we actually hit “send.”

In His Grace and Love,
Dave

Jose says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

October 9, 2012 at 1:07 am
Dear David,

Fist I direct this to Cherie who has accused me of being harsh and has called me deluded and placed me wihtout knowing a thing about me in the camp of those who will be lost to the grace oF God because THEY DISAGREE ON CERTAIN TEACHINGS!? DID I READ THAT CORRECTLY? ARE YOU SAYING THAT MY SALVATION IS DETERMINED UPON WHETHER OR NOT I AGREE WITH DAVID JAMES OR ANY OTHER FELLOW SERVANT OF CHRIST, because if you are; then not only are you in serious error, but you have crossed the line in your personal attack agaiinst me. I pitty you sister, because you deny me the grace Jesus Christ has shown you. Why and how? Well, read what you have written. What have I done to you, dear lady, to receive such venom from you pen?

As to our Lord’s warning about false prophets and false teachers, and the warnings we have throughout the New Testament; thank you for reminding us – take it to heat also – but, your rhetoric is precisely what has compelled me to write as I do. Judge, jury, and executioner. Where is the love of Christ in this?

I have one great regret and that is that you have been moved to an emotional state of mind, having lost control of yourself; that borders dangerously far from that which jesus Christ gave us; where He said that “A new commandment I give to you; that you love one another as I have loved you.” I am sorry for this.

Where is that love dear lady in your attack against me? Again, as I have written elsewhere and will continue to write and warn everyone; let the tares and the wheat make manifest who serves the Lord correctly. Let people judge for thmselves.

Be very careful with you words next time you write, and rememger the proverb that says that those who get involved in arguments that are not theirs are likened to a person who pulls a dogs ears. Please be careful what you say, and especially what you feel in your heart towards me, you do not know me. For your sake, I would caution you be careful what you write about me, because you; David, me, and everyone else will account some day for what we have said, and done; and I fear for you as a siter in Christ, as much as I fear for myself, for David, and our brethren as His servants.

Now I write to David James:

I did not mean to come on so strongly earlier, and I would not wish to question either your honesty or veracity in any way. If I gave that impression, please accept my humblest apologies. It was not my intent.

We have not met, but in Christ we are brothers. Yes despite our differences regarding Cessationism; you and I probably have much in common.

I also came from a hyper Pentecostal Deliverance background, though the Holy Spirit through the careful study of God’s Word, showed me the errors in the so-called Deliverance Ministies, and the Word of Faith religious telemarketers. We are in agreement there, and you will be surprised to know; so is Jonathan Cahn.

He is not a mystic, nor is he a Theosopohist, nor is he a Kabbalist, and has on several occasions been critical of the word of faith movement’s excesses. I know this because I know the man personally. you will understand then that when you know someone and you discover a group of people present publicly a plethora of charges against that person; charges you personally know to be untrue; you would be as upset as I am about it, because of the injustice.

What is surprising is that it is coming from a corner where you would least expect such an attack – from fellow Christians! Christians whose ministry I have followed for years, and thus I am distressed for you, for Jimmy DeYoung, for Brannon Howse, for Tom A. McMahon, and all of the others who’ve come out of the proverbial woodwork to week by week lodge incorrect and untrue broadsides against this man and his book.

I am livid over the mischaracterizations, mirsrepresentations, and misapplications that have manifested themselves since your book was published and since that infamour interviedw on World View Weekend between Brannon Howse and Jimmy DeYoung, which I have written a transcript of and e-mailed to Howse, in the hopes that perhaps after having read it; would come to his senses and call Dr. DeYoung to the side and plead with him as one pleads with a father to first read the book before making any other comments about it. But alas; unfortunately we are men aren’t we? And in the face of public statements like the ones I’ve heard eminating from World News Weekend leately in refreence to Rabbi Cahn and The Harbinger; I seriously doubt expect Dr. DeYoung making any public apology to Rabbi Cahn for what he said on that infamous broadcast. The rhetoric in that program has been the template levelled against a fellow Christian.

The result of this has been to drive a wedge in God’s people and to distract from the central theme of The Harbinger, which ironically and to my astonishment I must remind everyone who reads this, dovetails in many ways what Brannon Howse wrote on September 14th, 2009, titled Is America At a Dangerous Tipping Point for Receiving God’s Judgment?

So you see, David; I have been a fan of the Berean Call’s lucid and clear expositions and analysis of our times. This is why it is most distressing to see the trajectory of where this ministry has been heading in recent times.

There is acceptable disagreements between brethren regarding Eschatology, regarding Dispensational Theology, which I find a valuable tool in organizing Biblical History, but flawed when applied outside of the historical, because God does not change, His calling and gifts are irrevocable, and He has worked as He does since the dawn of time, and will continued to do so, as Revelation and other prophetic bookd of the Bible indicate; regardless of whether or not some willfully choose to believe a theology taught prominently in our seminaries that denies that fact. But I digress.

When I first wrote to you, I asked if you were a Cessationist, and you repled in the affimrative that you are both a Cessationist and you hold to a Dispensationist School of thought. Thank you for your forthrightness. Again, I appaud the work that you do and the work of your peers in the Discernment Ministry. It is needed.

But I disagree with the approach you and your peers take in handling what you consider error within the Body of Christ. I am not referring here to cults; you will note, I am referring here to differences that you consider error within the Body of Christ. There is a correct way of doing this, and there is an incorrect way of doing this.

Again, we all must take into consideration that what we do and say must be done in love. There is no love in much of what passes for discernment, and there is no grace in what some call Apololgetics. Why then do we who are the beneficiaries of God’s magnificent grace in Christ, behave, act, and speak of other Christians with whom we might disagree as though they were enemies of the cross?

This ought not to be so, and I take issue with how Discernment has descended into this abyss.
My brother, I would ask you to reconsider and allow Jonathan Cahn to be fully interviewed, allow him to address every charge, allow him to do this in writing if necessary, but to cease this campaign until you have with full assurance made absolutely certain of everything, because the Apostle Paul has written, let every man be completely convineced in his own mind.

I do not know you, but I am willing to bet, and of course I’m not a betting man; so take it as a figure of speech if you will – a colloquealism (did I spell that right?); that Jonathan Cahn’s “mysteries, his “Secrets” and other unfortunately misunderstood words and terms; when you’ve analysed what they mean, they all come down to insights, which all born again Bible believing Christians possess through the study of the Scriptures in the Holy Spirit.

For now, I leave and pray that the grace of God be with you, and that something good may come out of this for the glory of God, and that our nation and the people of God in it may awaken from sleep.
God bless and keep you.

SIDEBAR: Faith below, who also has a blog site dedicated to the examination of Biblical Truth and exposing false doctrines, makes the following observation below. I include it here, because she is replying to a scathing personal attack on me by someone calling herself Cherie above, because I called Dr. James out on his defiance of The Harbinger's message and its author, Jonathan Cahn.

Faith G says:
October 9, 2012 at 6:55 am

(QUOTING CHERIE ABOVE) 'Sir, (CHERIE WAS REFERRING TO ME) you are out of line here. I personally listened LIVE to the ON Air conversation Dave James had with Jonathan Cahn in April of this year moderated by Dr. DeYoung. Mr. James has been too kind to this false teacher. If nothing else how dare he use the Word of God as fiction as he claims. God’s Word is not for us to use for profit or gain in any way let alone use it to confuse saved and unsaved alike. Thank God for people like Mr. James, Dr. DeYoung and Brannon Howse to expose these demons in Christian skin.'

Wow, “false teacher,” “demons in Christian skin?” Wow. And there’s no point in commenting on the misunderstanding about what is fiction and how it is used as this person obviously wouldn’t get the point.

I understand that you allowed this post, Dave, as you allowed Jose’s, and I agree that both are out of bounds, but Cherie’s is over the top.

I think you are a sincere man who does want to serve the Lord and tries to be fair. But I have never seen such a wide divide between assessments of a book as the Harbinger has been getting. I continue to analyze the arguments in your book at my blog along with those of other critics and I keep being astonished at the thinking on your side of this. I’ve done my best to see where you’re coming from and all I can conclude is that you are amazingly wrong — about the topics I’ve covered so far anyway — and I still don’t know why for sure although I’ve offered my explanations from time to time.

I suppose there’s no point in rehashing it.

Faith