Below are postings on the David James web site The Alliance for Biblical Integrity. The postings are by people who write the author on The Harbinger, and he posts their and my postings for the public to view and read for themselves. The readers’ postings are followed by my postings in reply/clarifications to these comments.
Following these is also a lengthy article posted by David James on his web site about the current litigious battle between himself and the publishers of The Harbinger who have good reason to take this man to court for flagrant violation of the Fair Use Act and Mr. James’ many vituperations against The Harbinger’s author, Pastor and Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, and the publishers of The Harbinger, Charisma House Publishers/Charisma Group Publishers.
The fact that Mr. James in his own articles, brings into question Rabbi Cahn’s bonafides (see below), and as moderator allows others on his website in this discussion to do the same; is evidence in itself that he has taken this to a whole new level, and that his intent since the beginning was to defame and mischaracterize this man and to publish his opinions which he wrote in book form titled, The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? It doesn’t take much to understand and see precisely what his intent has been all along. A glance at his postings indicate the fixation Mr. James has on The Harbinger and its author, and how he has tried to capitalize on The Harbinger’s success; his most recent postings are the best form of marketing I have seen in years, because it brings into attention, and that online, Mr. James’ own polemic in order to boost sales of his book.
I have already written about this situation and my article can be read at the following link at The Pepster’s Post: A Voice in Cyberspace. I will only respond and reply to statements and assumptions which need correction. The people who are criticizing Rabbi Cahn, do not know the man, and I might add neither does Mr. James whose opinionated book and articles are at the very epicenter of this controversy. They, like he; have little or no prior knowledge on this topic, and they, like Mr. James; are completely wrong regarding its specifics because it is entirely based on Mr. James’ own Cessationist theological biases and doctrinal differences as to the approach to prophetic gifts and other gifts and offices of the Holy Spirit he and other Cessationists claim God no longer works in.
They hold to a form of godliness, but have denied its power, because they deny the living Spirit of Christ at work in Jonathan Cahn and other Christians like him. One can understand concern regarding the abuse and excesses and yes, even heretical statements made by religious telemarketers passing themselves off as Christian pastors; but to deny the Holy Spirit’s work in this day and age of great darkness is a nothing short than a tacit denial of Christ. It is a form of Anti-Christ.
Mr. James is academic but is devoid of any true spiritual discernment. The scholastic stale approach to the reading of God’s Word lacks the well-rounded understanding of the historical, and has no life in itself because it is merely an act of natural intellect and devoid of the life of The Spirit and denial of its work in the believer, because it elevates man’s intellect above that of God’s mind in the Spirit and thereby prevents the believer from putting on the mind of Christ, or as some translations say, putting on Jesus Christ. (Romans 13:14, 1Corinthians 2:10-16) This is why his book and his attack on Rabbi Cahn’s book and now even Rabbi Cahn’s calling by God, is so misguided and inappropriate. This is why though Mr. James has knowledge of some things, but he lacks the understanding that is needed to apply that knowledge properly to the study and reading of God’s Word. When this occurs, then you get what has happened here. It is one of the signs of this disbelieving age, that even the very elect may get fooled into a Post-Modern approach to the Scriptures.
Cessationism – the denial of the gifts and works of the Holy Spirit – is a form of Post Modern Christianity. It is an outgrowth of a disbelieving age of disbelieving believers; those who have a form of godliness, but they have denied its power. (2Timothy 3: ) And the Apostle Paul has told us what to do with them. Thus we see people whose ultimate authority is the idol of the Scriptures – that is, to idolize something, yes even God’s written Word – and not the God of the Scriptures, whom we are to worship and love above all else and Who is our ultimate authority. This is why the Apostle Paul warns that the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. As he writes in the Holy Spirit:
Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you? You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
(2Corinthians 3:1-6)
Yes, there is the possibility that academics towards God’s written Word can become an idol for some, and an ego trip, so let us walk circumspectly. Let those who have understanding know what is being said here. David James and others like him hide behind the mantle of a discernment ministry to brazenly attack other Christians. The witch hunt that has now become an official inquisition began not with writing of The Harbinger, but with the current campaign against it launched by Mr. James and the writing of his book. Since that time, these people have pursued Jonathan Cahn and have treated him worse than an unbeliever. It is contemptible what has happened in the name of Jesus Christ, in the name of “the letter of orthodoxy.”
History is filled with such examples, and this is why our Founders sought to prevent the onset of a national religious order or a state run church, because of the excesses and abuses their ancestors suffered in Europe. Now we are seeing a very subtle resurgence of this in our day, except it is insidious because it hides behind the mantle of legitimate Christian Evangelicalism, and it misuses the Scriptures to defame and attack other Christians with whom doctrinal disagreements exist.
Mr. James has come out of the closet now. Whereas in his book, he disarmed his readers by claiming to believe that Jonathan Cahn is a genuine believer with a genuine mainline Christian ministry, now he contradicts his own statements and comes out questioning his office and ordination, even his calling, by calling him “rabbi.” This is a disgrace. This is contemptible. This is un-Christian, and this is inexcusable. I warned early on that we would know with time, who was genuine and right in this debate developed; and it is coming to pass just as I warned it would. What does one say about a person who writes one thing and then contradicts what he has written someplace else? The Word of God calls this a double-minded man. Now let’s get down to business…….
The Pepster
Martha Roush says:
Any born again Christian, who’s sins have been forgiven by Jesus Christ will believe what is in the Word of God, the Bible. It is the living, breathing Word of God. It’s pages contain instruction and teaching of the ONLY way to Heaven, through the Son of God. The world indicates there are many roads to Heaven. This is not true. I do not just have a “belief” I have an experience. No other religion in the world has ANY leader that died for their people besides Jesus Christ. It doesn’t really matter if you believe Jonathan Cann’s book The Harbinger, or anyone elses interpretation, there is a clear account of the nation of Israel removing God from their lives and their punishment in the Scriptures. You do not have to believe any connection to Israel to believe what has and is happening to America today. What if you believe God is real, there is punishment for sin, a hell to avoid and a Heaven to gain in the next life? Are you losing anything by believing that? So what if you’re wrong? Then you lose everything. Jesus did not die for nothing. He died for me and you. And He is coming back one day. There is nothing to lose for being ready.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Martha, your simple explanation of the Gospel lays to rest the argument for The Harbinger and what its message it trying to communicate to America, over and against its critics. That others cannot understand that and choose to spend their days and energies, as well as their money trying to muzzle the call to repentance and return to God that The Harbinger brings to this dying nation is beyond credulity, but it is a sign of the times in which we live that there are some among us who are actively at work to oppose a fellow servant in Christ because they’re not doing it as they would like. There is nothing unorthodox in what The Harbinger says. You are absolutely correct when you say, “It really doesn’t matter if you believe Cann’s (sic) book The Harbinger, or anyone elses (sic) interpretation, there is a clear account of the nation of Israel removing God from their lives and their punishment in the Scriptures. You do not have to believe any connection to Israel to believe what has and is happening to America today.” You don’t have to endorse or not endorse Rabbi Cahn’s book to understand and see the trends and the signs of America’s moral and spiritual decline of which you allude to here. But The Harbinger does bear what you say out clearly for those who have eyes to see these things. I understand what you say, and agree. Mr. James and some others here don’t, as other critics of The Harbinger do not.
stanley sroka jr. says:
The time one takes to read “The Harbinger”, one could have read Romans and John and Galatians and Ephesians and really been saturated with deep truth.
Books are sensational, webs spun by masters and as such they attempt to make merchandise of Christians and extract our dollars. The gullible are snared. Why spend money on the Publishing media and their spin masters?
I’m glad you refuted “The Harbinger”. I listend to it’s author about 4 times and just shook my head in dissaproval and amazment on his magic and spin. Should we really be surprised? Not if we believe what Paul told Timothy.
Good defense of our Faith and exposure to “the slight of men”, Dave. The Lord is with your spirit.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Stanley, you are correct that there is nothing that compares to the reading of God’s Word. It is the only written, inerrant, and inspired, Holy Spirit-breathed source of verification of all truth and exposure of all deception we have, and it is the place to go for us to test all things. There is nothing sensational about The Harbinger, and there is no spinning, simply a written record of a series of topical sermons and messages given by Rabbi Cahn over a ten year period – all of which I heard and viewed of which The Harbinger’s critics have no knowledge of, just as they do not have of the message itself – which have been put to writing in a fictitious narrative. Mr. James and other critics of The Harbinger have taken pains to uncover alleged myths and preposterous presuppositions and equivocations that do not exist but only in their minds of those who find fault with Rabbi Cahn’s New York Times best-seller; all of which they have projected onto Rabbi Cahn.
Richmond Gold, GHANA says:
Does it really matter what happens in America or past Israel, who evens cares what happen on 9/11. The of the matter is that Christ JESUS is coming again…I will edge all men and women all over the world to read the BIBLE everyday and ask for GODS guidance, direction also GODS divine understanding of the BIBLE. AMEN
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: It has great significance for those of US who were born and raised in this great land, and would like to see it restored to God. What will Christians who out other Christians over doctrinal matters and try to discredit their name, their ministry, their life’s work for the Lord, as well as their calling in the name of “contending for the faith” do or say when Jesus Christ returns? I do not want to be in their shoes when He comes and brings into account every idle word and every act of envy and pride against a fellow servant of Jesus Christ.
Now what I say, I address only the critics of other Christians, and in particular in this case; the critics of The Harbinger and its author, Jonathan Cahn: YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU HAVE DONE, NOR DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU HAVE OPENED TO THE WORLD WITH YOUR WORDS, AND YOU WILL BE BROUGHT TO ACCOUNT FOR EVERY WORD YOU HAVE SPOKEN AGAINST YOUR FELLOW BROTHER, BECAUSE THERE WAS A WAY TO DISCUSS SUCH MATTERS, BUT YOU HAVE WILLFULLY CHOSEN NOT TO DO IT.
jude newman says:
Thank you Dave
Your comment sums it up perfectly
Unfortunately, although The Harbinger talks about repentance – it does not tell how to repent or be saved – and even if for this reason alone it is not even a “good book” let alone a great one. Take a look at his chapter that is supposed to be about salvation – it does not mention faith, belief or trust even one time – and neither does it mention the resurrection of Christ apart from which there is no gospel.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Jude I would caution you to be very careful in your criticism of how another Christian shares the Gospel with the lost, for it would do you and everyone here (including Mr. James and myself) to heed the Apostle Paul in the Holy Spirit writes:
Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
(Romans 14:4)
It is matters of impurity and sexual immorality that the church is to judge within its gates, just as Paul in the Holy Spirit directs all Christians to do when he writes:
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father’s wife. You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.
For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.
(2Corinthians 5)
Doctrinal disagreements are handled quite differently. But take note in the Scripture I have just cited. Nowhere does one see the practice of outing other Christians over doctrinal disagreements and theological questions, and putting them on public display over the course of several months, even years until they fold. But what does God’s Word say about such matters? This is what the Apostle Paul writes in the Holy Spirit:
If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.
(1Timothy 6:3-5)
In other words, if anyone within the body of Christ advocates a different belief than ours and the teachings of Christ as we have them in the Gospels, and regarding the source of godliness – that is the work of the Holy Spirit through the Eternal Gospel preached and accepted by those who come to Jesus Christ for salvation – salvation by grace and not by works or religious discipline and penance; and take not that it says that such a person – what kind of person? The person who does not conform to God’s Word, but nitpicks and has what Paul calls conceited and understands nothing; is the person who, like the critics of The Harbinger have done, has resulted in division and discord within the body of Christ, out of which has arisen envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions. This is why Paul warns us of this, to avoid it, and to avoid people who have a form of godliness – those who profess to be Christians – but have denied its power, one of the signs of the end times. (2Timothy 3:5) Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, as Paul has written (Philippians 1:15a); and indeed it appears that way, when we read repeatedly by The Harbinger’s critics how successful it is, and not rejoicing in that fact, and giving praise to God, but writing from a critical spirit and one of envy and covetousness, wishing they were as successful. Don’t believe for a minute that this is overlooked by the Lord and is not picked up by those who read these “glowing complaints” of its success.
And as to repentance, have we become so blind that we have forgotten how to come before God and ask forgiveness!? I remember the day I received Christ as my Savior on August 30th, 1976, at 5:30 in the morning. I can even take you to where it took place, and I can recount to you how it took place. I’ll never forget that day.
Which is why I’ll tell you; I didn’t need to have anybody tell me how to ask forgiveness. I repented that morning in my car with a brother in Christ praying with me, and I’ll tell you, I did not need to be shown how to repent, the Holy Spirit of God made it very real to me how to do this from my heart and I did. From that day forward, I have lived in the grace of Almighty God in Christ, and have never been the same.
Does not anyone here realize that what had occurred in Jerusalem had to be described to those who heard so that they could reference the event with what had been reported by word of mouth as occurring in those days during the Feast of the Passover? So that from this event, the connection was made to those who listened by the Holy Spirit that the Messiah was to suffer according to the Scriptures, be put to death according to the Scriptures, and rise from the dead according to the Scriptures, and that repentance from sin and salvation would be preached in His name to all of the ends of the earth? (1Corinthians 15:1-8)
But take note how Paul according to the Holy Spirit of God tackles the false doctrine that was becoming prevalent within the Corinthian community of that period; that there was no resurrection. He tackles it not by destroying those within the community who were misled and misleading others, but by way of explaining that there is indeed a resurrection of the dead (1Corinthians 15) upon which the entire Christian faith hangs, for he writes:
Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who (have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
(1Corinthians 15:12-19)
This religious criticism and quibbling about how this is done or that is done and not done by Mr. James and others is nothing but another excuse to use in their attempts to find another criticism of the book which he uses to drive his point of view, which is wholly misplaced and unnecessary, and especially inappropriate, because you do not criticize how somebody brings another person to Christ.
If they’re bringing them to Christ, who are you to criticize them? And let me say for the record, people are coming to repentance and to Christ with The Harbinger. It is a best-seller and has now sold about a million copies because God is using it for His purposes and His glory, David James and the others notwithstanding, and over their objections.
I hope that you will take a few minutes to read this special edition of the “ABI Blog.”
We have received letters threatening legal action related to the publication of my book The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? These letters were from a lawyer with a firm which “serves as litigation counsel for Charisma Media, publisher of The Harbinger by Rabbi Jonathan Cahn and published by Charisma Media.”
Therefore, we are asking that concerned believers everywhere make this a matter of prayer—that the Lord would graciously give us wisdom and that He would protect us in the midst of this challenge. We also believe it is important to bring this matter to the attention of the Body of Christ and would encourage you to share this article with others given the millions of people who have now been influenced by The Harbinger and its author.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: I have taken the time to read the ABI Blog because I am on the Berean Call’s mailing list, having purchased a copy of your book months ago for purposes of my own investigation into its claims, for which I am writing a work in answer and as a corrective to its claims you plug here. You’re asking Christians to pray because for the first time someone has the courage to stand up to you!?
And yet, rather than coming before Christ and asking in true sincerity to help you examine yourselves to see where you have erred in your methods and approach to “discernment,” instead you continue obstinately in defiance to justify yourselves after having for months – almost a year now – been dragging a fellow Christian through the mud – and pulling out all of the stops to destroy his ministry, his good name, his calling, and everything the Lord has accomplished in his life by putting it all into question with your incessant attacks upon him!? This is astonishing.
But we should not be surprised by this. Every age has had a religious opposition to God’s work and yours is no difference. You are fulfilling part of the signs we are to be looking for in the last days. Do you really think that Satan will not couch them in the legitimacy of a well-respected and well known ministry in order to deceive a good many of God’s elect into believing the various attacks against The Harbinger that have been posted here and on other so-called “discernment” sites, many of which I have addressed myself to for the same reasons I do here – to end this charade and practice in futile polemic.
DAVID JAMES: IS THIS MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING?
Some may be wondering if the controversy surrounding The Harbinger really is a big deal. I want to assure you that it definitely is – and it show no signs of slowing down. Last spring I suggested that The Harbinger could well end up being one of the most significant theological issues of 2012. As it turns out, this could extend well into this year. It was recently announced that The Harbinger passed one million copies sold (in just twelve months), and also achieved the distinction of being the longest running Christian book presently on The New York Times bestseller list.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: It wasn’t until you made it something by being the first to initiate attack after attack against Rabbi Cahn’s book and then against his teachings and his ministry by encouraging others to do this and then posting their articles on the Berean Call’s site. You have taken a great misunderstanding of yours pertaining to this book and have elevated it into a polemic on hermeneutics and heresy. And not just you, but your colleagues also. You and they have done more than that; you and they have spent months – almost a year now in hot pursuit of Rabbi Cahn’s every statement when he appears on television, gives a radio interview, gives a speech, just about everywhere he goes and speaks, and used every word he has uttered to criticize his manner of sharing the Gospel, what he says about his book, and just about everything you can find to add fire to this controversy and promote your own book.
Even in writing this long article, you’re commenting on how much his book has sold, and used this as a sedge way to promote your book. Your comments are dripping with envy. Why would the number of sales of a book have any significance to you? If the book is being used of the Lord to bring people to repentance and to salvation in Christ, as it indeed is, and a million people have read it, shouldn’t you be rejoicing about this and not complaining as you do. As I have written above in answer to one of your online commentators:
Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, as Paul has written (Philippians 1:15a); and indeed it appears that way, when we read repeatedly by The Harbinger’s critics how successful it is, and not rejoicing in that fact, and giving praise to God, but writing from a critical spirit and one of envy and covetousness, wishing they were as successful. Don’t believe for a minute that this is overlooked by the Lord and is not picked up by those who read these “glowing complaints” of its success.
MARK MY WORDS, THE LORD KNOWS PRECISELY WHAT YOU FEEL DEEP IN YOUR HEART AS YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THE SALES OF THIS BOOK. DON’T THINK THAT YOU ARE FOOLING ANYONE BY HIDING BEHIND A CLAIM OTHER THAN WHAT IS OBVIOUS; your own words giving you away. Deny it, but it makes no difference, the Lord knows where you are in this, and so do you.
DAVID JAMES: And, the influence that Jonathan Cahn and his teachings are having through his book, the many interviews and his numerous messages continues to grow unabated. He was even the keynote speaker at one of the main annual (though not official) inaugural prayer breakfasts in Washington D.C. on January 21.
The author has said that he has been approached numerous times concerning turning The Harbinger into a movie and I would not be at all surprised if the production of a movie will be announced sometime this year. If that happens, the influence of The Harbinger will receive another significant boost and reach people who otherwise might not even be aware of it. Given the inevitable artistic license taken in most book-to-movie adaptations, with all the problems already in The Harbinger, what might we expect in a movie version?
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: I repeat once again: Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, as Paul has written (Philippians 1:15a); and indeed it appears that way, when we read repeatedly by The Harbinger’s critics how successful it is, and not rejoicing in that fact, and giving praise to God, but writing from a critical spirit and one of envy and covetousness, wishing they were as successful. Don’t believe for a minute that this is overlooked by the Lord and is not picked up by those who read these “glowing complaints” of its success. What is this to you, if not out of envy you take note of this? Because certainly there is no joy in the way you write of it; and you are not giving God the praise for the souls that are being won for Christ from the reading of this book, instead you write as one who looks from afar with great displeasure and melancholy that so many people are being impacted for Christ from this book, and not yours.
DAVID JAMES: THE THREAT OF LEGAL ACTION
The following is an excerpt from the lead article by T.A. McMahon in the February edition of The Berean Call monthly newsletter.
Although for decades we at TBC have been exhorting and encouraging believers to be Bereans (i.e., to check out everything they are being taught by searching the Scriptures-Acts 17:10-11), we too have experienced the increased intensity of the spiritual battle and witnessed its exponential growth. The latest issue, which we submit to you for prayer support, is a threatened lawsuit over the book we published by David James (The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction?). The complaint is that the author used too many quotes from the New York Times best-selling book, The Harbinger, without permission from author “rabbi” Jonathan Cahn and publisher Charisma Media Publications (CMP). The complaint further states that our use of the quotes has inhibited the sales of The Harbinger and has thus financially damaged Cahn and CMP in an amount yet to be determined. In effect, we are being told that we must limit our documentation in warning the body of Christ of the biblical errors in The Harbinger. In other words, we cannot be Bereans or like the watchman of Ezekiel 3:17-19 without Cahn’s permission.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: If it were just the financial aspect of this, but what you and your colleagues and confederates have done to “Rabbi Cahn” as you so disparagingly write above is beyond monetary. You cannot put a dollar figure to the damage that you individually and as a group have done to the ministry and person of Jonathan Cahn, whom you have slandered and mischaracterized, as you do here by calling him “rabbi” – as if to bring into question whether or not he is legitimate minister of God’s Word and servant of Christ – and many other places, your own writings and fomentations against Pastor and Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, his book The Harbinger, and the publishers, Charisma House, speak for themselves.
Your own fomentations and aspersions against these from your own writings, and the writings of the various critics of The Harbinger, if compiled and examined thoroughly, would present the best evidence in any court of law that what you and your colleagues have done to this man is the most horrendous abuse of God’s Word by several parties against other parties that we have witnessed in our lifetime. This is not hyperbole, this is a fact borne out by your own continual obsessive writings against Rabbi Cahn and against Charisma Publishers.
The facts speak for themselves and are plain for everyone to examine and reach to their inevitable conclusion. I’ve never seen such a thing before; where a group of Christians out another Christian and his publisher and those who work for it, and trash them wholesale, making light of the publishers being a part of an “empire” where anyone can pick up on the connotation being an allusion to the “evil empire” of Star Wars and the Dark Side of the Force. This is preposterous. Again, I have never seen such a thing as this except in the pages of my Bible where Dathan and others conspired against Moses to turn the people of Israel against him. This is the same critical spirit, the same methods, and the same results. Horrendous! But what do the Scriptures say concerning this? This is what the Biblical record describes as Korah’s rebellion:
Now Korah the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, with Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took action, and they rose up before Moses, together with some of the sons of Israel, two hundred and fifty leaders of the congregation, chosen in the assembly, men of renown. They assembled together against Moses and Aaron, and said to them, “You have gone far enough, for all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is in their midst; so why do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the Lord?”
When Moses heard this, he fell on his face; and he spoke to Korah and all his company, saying, “Tomorrow morning the Lord will show who is His, and who is holy, and will bring him near to Himself; even the one whom He will choose, He will bring near to Himself. Do this: take censers for yourselves, Korah and all your company, and put fire in them, and lay incense upon them in the presence of the Lord tomorrow; and the man whom the Lord chooses shall be the one who is holy. You have gone far enough, you sons of Levi!”
Then Moses said to Korah, “Hear now, you sons of Levi, is it not enough for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the rest of the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to Himself, to do the service of the tabernacle of the Lord, and to stand before the congregation to minister to them; and that He has brought you near, Korah, and all your brothers, sons of Levi, with you? And are you seeking for the priesthood also? Therefore you and all your company are gathered together against the Lord; but as for Aaron, who is he that you grumble against him?”
Then Moses sent a summons to Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab; but they said, “We will not come up. Is it not enough that you have brought us up out of a land flowing with milk and honey to have us die in the wilderness, but you would also lord it over us? Indeed, you have not brought us into a land flowing with milk and honey, nor have you given us an inheritance of fields and vineyards. Would you put out the eyes of these men? We will not come up!”
Then Moses became very angry and said to the Lord, “Do not regard their offering! I have not taken a single donkey from them, nor have I done harm to any of them.” Moses said to Korah, “You and all your company be present before the Lord tomorrow, both you and they along with Aaron. Each of you take his firepan and put incense on it, and each of you bring his censer before the Lord, two hundred and fifty firepans; also you and Aaron shall each bring his firepan.” So they each took his own censer and put fire on it, and laid incense on it; and they stood at the doorway of the tent of meeting, with Moses and Aaron. Thus Korah assembled all the congregation against them at the doorway of the tent of meeting. And the glory of the Lord appeared to all the congregation.
Then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying, “Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them instantly.” But they fell on their faces and said, “O God, God of the spirits of all flesh, when one man sins, will You be angry with the entire congregation?”
Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the congregation, saying, ‘Get back from around the dwellings of Korah, Dathan and Abiram.’”
Then Moses arose and went to Dathan and Abiram, with the elders of Israel following him, and he spoke to the congregation, saying, “Depart now from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing that belongs to them, or you will be swept away in all their sin.” So they got back from around the dwellings of Korah, Dathan and Abiram; and Dathan and Abiram came out and stood at the doorway of their tents, along with their wives and their sons and their little ones. Moses said, “By this you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all these deeds; for this is not my doing. If these men die the death of all men or if they suffer the fate of all men, then the Lord has not sent me. But if the Lord brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the Lord.”
As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open; and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, and their households, and all the men who belonged to Korah with their possessions. So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly. All Israel who were around them fled at their outcry, for they said, “The earth may swallow us up!” Fire also came forth from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering the incense.
Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Say to Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, that he shall take up the censers out of the midst of the blaze, for they are holy; and you scatter the burning coals abroad. As for the censers of these men who have sinned at the cost of their lives, let them be made into hammered sheets for a plating of the altar, since they did present them before the Lord and they are holy; and they shall be for a sign to the sons of Israel.” So Eleazar the priest took the bronze censers which the men who were burned had offered, and they hammered them out as a plating for the altar, as a reminder to the sons of Israel that no layman who is not of the descendants of Aaron should come near to burn incense before the Lord; so that he will not become like Korah and his company—just as the Lord had spoken to him through Moses.
(Numbers 16:1-40)
It was not enough for Korah and others be Levites, they wanted to be like Aaron and Moses, priests as well, and they defied Moses and Aaron and caused a division within the very camp of the tent of meeting between the ministers of God’s service and His people. In the same way, these critics of The Harbinger have fulminated for months and done their level best to debunk its message, discredit its messenger of the Lord and the message itself, and have taken upon themselves to write a book of their own that at first glance resembled The Harbinger.
They were asked to change the cover and they did, because it was obvious that the cover was almost an identical copy of The Harbinger’s cover. So they complied because they understood they did not have a legal leg to stand on. And they also understood that what they did was both duplicitous and dishonest to mislead the public into buying the other book and not The Harbinger without realizing it.
Again, they have been confronted legally because they have made good use, more than the fair use that Mr. James claims, and it may be litigated just how far Mr. James exceeded the fair use clause, which he naturally argues that he did not violate. Instead of showing humility, Mr. James shows defiance. Instead of ceasing and desisting this horrendous pursuit and persecution of another Christian, he and his colleagues continue, even became more brazen in their fulminations. Is this the behavior and rhetoric that glorifies Christ and brings peace to warring parties? Now look at what the Scriptures teach that happened next after Korah and his entourage perished:
But on the next day all the congregation of the sons of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron, saying, “You are the ones who have caused the death of the Lord’s people.” It came about, however, when the congregation had assembled against Moses and Aaron, that they turned toward the tent of meeting, and behold, the cloud covered it and the glory of the Lord appeared. Then Moses and Aaron came to the front of the tent of meeting, and the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Get away from among this congregation, that I may consume them instantly.” Then they fell on their faces. Moses said to Aaron, “Take your censer and put in it fire from the altar, and lay incense on it; then bring it quickly to the congregation and make atonement for them, for wrath has gone forth from the Lord, the plague has begun!” Then Aaron took it as Moses had spoken, and ran into the midst of the assembly, for behold, the plague had begun among the people. So he put on the incense and made atonement for the people. He took his stand between the dead and the living, so that the plague was checked. But those who died by the plague were 14,700, besides those who died on account of Korah. Then Aaron returned to Moses at the doorway of the tent of meeting, for the plague had been checked.
(Numbers 16:41-50)
Now let me make this perfectly clear here in case anyone thinks that I am comparing Jonathan Cahn to Moses and Charisma House to Aaron and his camp. I am not. The Scriptures here however, illustrate to us a story of how misguided men within the camp and service of the Lord foment rebellions against other men within the camp and service of the Lord, in the name of God and for God; and in the process, create divisions and dissensions among themselves and among God’s people with the resultant confusion and needless suffering all of this brings.
For months now, The Harbinger’s critics have claimed that the New York Times best-seller has caused division and chaos to the body of Christ, just as the congregation of the sons of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron and accused them of causing the death of God’s people, when in fact it was the sin of rebellion fomented by Korah with Dathan, Abiram, the sons of Eliab, On the son of Peleth, and the sons of Reuben that caused it, as the narrative shows. They are wrong in this accusation, because there did not exist any division when The Harbinger was published and instantly became a New York Times best-seller, indicating that people, among whom were God’s people; were already reading the book.
The division and recriminatory and inflammatory rhetoric that ensued among God’s people for and against The Harbinger began with the on air radio attacks conducted against it on Brannon Howse’s Worldview Weekend, and other religious talk radio programs and with the publication of Mr. James’ book shortly thereafter, NOT BEFORE. The Harbinger did not cause this, but The Harbinger’s critics.
For them to claim differently, as they do by accusing Jonathan Cahn of having caused all of this is equivalent to what the children of Israel did to Moses and Aaron when they accused them of causing the deaths of those who perished with Korah’s rebellion and its aftermath. This is as plain and as simple as the eye can see, and let those who have eyes see what these men have done and what it has done to the body of Christ. The deception is great and it is spiritual in nature..
Furthermore, in answer to the above preposterous misuse of God’s Word to justify the slander and defamation of another person, a brother in Christ no less; I have posted the following on my website The Pepster’s Post: A Voice in Cyberspace, in a post titled The Harbinger’s Critics Toss Filthy Rags for Public Sympathy:
“I would then suggest to Mr. McMahon to do the same with himself and with his ministry. He was not called by Christ to train the resources with which he was entrusted [and all of its resources against other Christians, but on the cults and the false New Age religious order working to overrun our society. This is the true mission of the apologist and defender of the faith; not polemicizing against other members of the body of Christ and defaming them in public.] (editor’s note: what is in brackets was added by this writer)
What you and your associates have done to Pastor Jonathan Cahn; to his ministry; to his calling; to his good name; has been nothing short than reprehensible. Your behavior and public statements against this man based upon a misreading and misunderstanding of his book, and the false doctrine of Cessationist Theology is nothing short than a scandal in itself. It is contemptible.
Even after having been reproved by some for having “thrown a brother under the bus” you could’ve at least made a serious self-examination of what you have done. No. You didn’t. Instead you trained every available resource to continue this campaign of defamation against The Harbinger and against its author, Jonathan Cahn, and have now brought even the shame of your having been legally warned not to continue in this to the Christian public’s eye in order to win them over and enflame them against your brother in Christ whom you have treated with the utmost contempt. My God man, unbelievers treat their own better than you have.”
What you and your associates have done to Pastor Jonathan Cahn; to his ministry; to his calling; to his good name; has been nothing short than reprehensible. Your behavior and public statements against this man based upon a misreading and misunderstanding of his book, and the false doctrine of Cessationist Theology is nothing short than a scandal in itself. It is contemptible.
Even after having been reproved by some for having “thrown a brother under the bus” you could’ve at least made a serious self-examination of what you have done. No. You didn’t. Instead you trained every available resource to continue this campaign of defamation against The Harbinger and against its author, Jonathan Cahn, and have now brought even the shame of your having been legally warned not to continue in this to the Christian public’s eye in order to win them over and enflame them against your brother in Christ whom you have treated with the utmost contempt. My God man, unbelievers treat their own better than you have.”
You are not exhorting other Christians to be Bereans and neither are you critics of The Harbinger, Bereans. Read the Scriptures. What does it say? Let us go to it:
The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
(Acts 17:10-11)
There is no evidence here of a group of Christians outing another Christian or other Christians and branding them as heretics over doctrinal matters, but a thorough examination of the claims of the Gospel over the objections of those who opposed it. Mr. James like to say that he advocates for the reading of the Scriptures in its proper literal context – as he does elsewhere here – well, practice what you preach. Apply this Scripture to its proper context and don’t abuse it by claiming that what you and your associates have done is anything remotely close to what the Bereans of the Bible did, because it is not.
The true Bereans searched the Scriptures for the Gospel, you search the Scriptures to abuse and misapply them against other Christians whom you disagree with. A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE. The deception is so great that it is being used by Satan to tear the very fabric of Evangelical Christianity even as I write this. I do not take any pleasure in pointing this out to you and anyone else, because I am extremely troubled by it in my spirit and grieved in the Lord for seeing and hearing what I both hear and see with my eyes concerning these things. THIS IS NOT OF GOD WHAT YOU ARE DOING, THOUGH YOU CITE THE SCRIPTURES TO JUSTIFY WHAT YOU DO. MEN HAVE BEEN DOING THAT SINCE THE TIMES OF THE ANCIENTS. YOU MAY CALL YOURSELVES BEREANS, BUT READ THE SCRIPTURE AGAIN; YOU ARE NOT BEREANS. YOU ARE NOT BEREANS. THE BEREANS DID NOT GO AFTER OTHER CHRISTIANS AS YOU DO. THE BEREANS SOUGHT TO KNOW THE TRUTH AND NOTHING ELSE, AND THEY DID NOT USE THE TRUTH TO ABUSE THEIR FELLOW CHRISTIANS, BUT TO GET CLOSER TO GOD AND KNOW HIM PERSONALLY. VERY BIG DIFFERENCE. YOU ARE DECEIVED AND DECEIVING OTHERS IF YOU CLAIM TO BE BEREANS. THE CONTEXT OF THE SCRIPTURE BEARS THIS OUT PLAINLY.
It is amazing and a sign that this fight is spiritual, not intellectual; that neither you or your colleagues, or even some of those on this list who support you, even realize this! This is astonishing! But again, it is further evidence that this battle is spiritual and that the weapons of our warfare are not carnal – that is, not according to the wisdom and natural inclinations of the understanding of men, but of the Holy Spirit of God in Christ Our Lord.
DAVID JAMES: This is the first time in my 35 years of working with Dave Hunt and our addressing nearly every major religion, religious cult, aberrational Christian sect, unbiblical trend, religious publication, book, media production, etc., that any organization or individual has even hinted at suing us. Now, however, we are being threatened with legal action by those claiming to be in the church. More critical than the unbiblical action of a brother threatening to take another brother to court (1 Corinthians 6) is the issue of preventing the biblical evaluation of a work that is influencing hundreds of thousands of professing and confessing Christians, as well as those who don’t profess to know Christ. We have hired a copyright attorney to address the legal issues and have responded to the attorney for Cahn and CMP. Even so, we covet your prayers that the Lord will be glorified throughout the process.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Again I quote from The Pepster’s Post: A Voice in Cyberspace, in a post titled The Harbinger’s Critics Toss Filthy Rags for Public Sympathy:
Let us look at the Scripture to which Mr. James alludes. I quote it here from the New American Standard Bible:Does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren, but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?
Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?
(1Corinthians 6:1-7)
First, the Apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God writes to berate his Corinthian brethren for not having competent leaders among themselves to whom they could approach and litigate their grievances against one another – believers like themselves who could take up the matter of their differences and resolve it biblically.
It was to their shame that there were none among their community who could be trusted as competent and impartial arbiters of who could be appointed by their leaders to take up legal matters among themselves, and instead they had no recourse but to resort to courts of judges who were men unlike themselves would take up matters that they more than likely had little or no competence to litigate in the first place. Paul says that this was to their shame – not the act in itself, since they would have to take it if there were men among them who could decide such matters, but that they had no one among them who take up these matters – this was their shame.
We find the same holds true today. Because there is not a body of Christians who could arbitrate the differences that Christian denominations have with one another, even individual Christians belonging to various ministries who also have serious differences with one another over doctrinal issues and issues of policies and procedures; Christians of all denominations much seek civil courts to decide matters where others who should know better, but cannot restrain their tongue, have slandered, and borne false witness against their fellow brethren. Otherwise such men would continue their assaults against other Christian ministries unabated and unchallenged. They must be made to account in some way and in some manner and stopped before they destroy any more lives.
Paul too makes mention that the redeemed of the Lord will no doubt serve in some legal capacity in the Highest Court of God’s justice some day in which angels and men will be brought to justice for their rebellion; no doubt the Great White Throne Judgment following the second resurrection of the dead (Mark 13:27, Romans 8:1-4, 1Corinthians 15, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17, 2Thessalonians 2:1-12, Hebrews 9:27-28, Revelations 2:11, 20:6), or the Second Death mentioned in Scripture (Revelations 20:14, 21:8).
We must be competent, knowledgeable in the Scriptures, temperate in our dealings, and with insight and impartiality serve now so that we will be competent and impartial then and have insight to judge then. For this reason I write as I do, because the self-deception of these men is great and they have carried many away with their words and unsettled others.
Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded?
(1Corinthians 6:1-7)
First, the Apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God writes to berate his Corinthian brethren for not having competent leaders among themselves to whom they could approach and litigate their grievances against one another – believers like themselves who could take up the matter of their differences and resolve it biblically.
It was to their shame that there were none among their community who could be trusted as competent and impartial arbiters of who could be appointed by their leaders to take up legal matters among themselves, and instead they had no recourse but to resort to courts of judges who were men unlike themselves would take up matters that they more than likely had little or no competence to litigate in the first place. Paul says that this was to their shame – not the act in itself, since they would have to take it if there were men among them who could decide such matters, but that they had no one among them who take up these matters – this was their shame.
We find the same holds true today. Because there is not a body of Christians who could arbitrate the differences that Christian denominations have with one another, even individual Christians belonging to various ministries who also have serious differences with one another over doctrinal issues and issues of policies and procedures; Christians of all denominations much seek civil courts to decide matters where others who should know better, but cannot restrain their tongue, have slandered, and borne false witness against their fellow brethren. Otherwise such men would continue their assaults against other Christian ministries unabated and unchallenged. They must be made to account in some way and in some manner and stopped before they destroy any more lives.
Paul too makes mention that the redeemed of the Lord will no doubt serve in some legal capacity in the Highest Court of God’s justice some day in which angels and men will be brought to justice for their rebellion; no doubt the Great White Throne Judgment following the second resurrection of the dead (Mark 13:27, Romans 8:1-4, 1Corinthians 15, 1Thessalonians 4:15-17, 2Thessalonians 2:1-12, Hebrews 9:27-28, Revelations 2:11, 20:6), or the Second Death mentioned in Scripture (Revelations 20:14, 21:8).
We must be competent, knowledgeable in the Scriptures, temperate in our dealings, and with insight and impartiality serve now so that we will be competent and impartial then and have insight to judge then. For this reason I write as I do, because the self-deception of these men is great and they have carried many away with their words and unsettled others.
Their actions, their behavior towards those Christians whom they’ve targeted, and their words speak for themselves and are made self-evident by the light of God’s Word when properly applied and understood, because everything is exposed by the light. Just as the Apostle Paul in the Holy Spirit has written: But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light. (Ephesians 5:13)
DAVID JAMES: In October we received the first letter from Charisma’s lawyer concerning my use of quotes from The Harbinger. This threat of litigation was followed by two additional letters about a month apart making various demands for specific information concerning sales of my book and actions that we must take, including specific deadlines for compliance. So, although this is the first time we have made this issue public in writing, we have had these threats hanging over our heads for several months.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: AND WHAT ABOUT THE WITCH HUNT AND CAMPAIN OF CONTINUAL DEFAMATION AND MISCHARACTERIZATION THAT RABBI CAHN AND HIS BOOK AND MINISTRY HAVE SUFFERED BECAUSE OF YOUR MERCILESS ATTACKS? Why have you fixated yourselves to this man and his book!? He has done nothing to you and yet you have for almost a year been at this without end!? Or where do you want to take this? DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT ANYTHING YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES HAVE DONE TO THIS MAN GLORIFIES CHRIST OR PLEASES HIM IN ANY WAY!? DO YOU NOT REALIZE WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND HAVE DONE!? HAVE YOU NO SENSE AT ALL ABOUT ALL OF THIS!? ARE YOU NOT COMPELLED IN YOUR OWN CONSCIENCE BEFORE GOD TO REEXAMINE YOUR METHODS AND WHAT YOU HAVE DONE TO A BROTHER IN CHRIST IN YOUR RUSH TO GET YOUR BOOK PUBLISHED THAT YOU HAVE LOST SIGHT OF HOW YOU HAVE WRONGED YOUR BROTHER IN CHRIST, WHO HAS NEVER RAISED HIS VOICE AGAINST YOU, NOR DONE YOU ANY HARM!? THIS IS DISGRACEFUL!
DAVID JAMES: Furthermore, the October letter was actually the second threat of legal action. The first threat came less than two weeks after my book became available in early August and concerned the original cover design of The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? In that first letter the attorney made the following charges:
Our client learned that you, along with author David James, are using a strikingly similar book cover design of The Harbinger in commerce in connection with your book The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction. The book cover of The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction infringes Charisma’s intellectual property rights in the trade dress of its book The Harbinger. No doubt exists that the cover for your book The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction is designed to confuse consumers into thinking that either (1) this book is actually The Harbinger and/or (2) that the book is sponsored, affiliated with or approved by Charisma.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Regardless of whether or when or how many letters you have received; the fact that for months you and your colleagues at various “discernment” ministries have leveled one attack after another against this servant of Christ, who I might add had done or said nothing to you – the man was not even aware that you existed until the day you began your broadsides against him, his book, his teaching, and his ministry. You have persecuted this man for warning America about impending judgment and have slandered his good name and worked hard with your colleagues to ruin his reputation and his work for the Lord for months, and now you have the unmitigated gall to cry about being sued!? And to do it in public to try to win the public’s sympathy and seek publicity for your book, which you continually promote here throughout this discussion!? HOW DARE YOU!?
DAVID JAMES: The basis for the threat of legal action involves two primary points: 1) that we intended to confuse consumers and 2) that consumers would actually be confused. Regarding the first charge, it is pure speculation with no supporting evidence whatsoever. But more importantly, it is both judgmental and factually wrong. There was never any intention by anyone to deceive, mislead of confuse. A comparison of the two covers (shown below) makes this obvious.
Regarding the second charge, once again, even a cursory glance makes it clear that my book is a direct negative response to The Harbinger, and therefore, obviously neither produced by nor endorsed by Charisma Media. Of course, we wanted people to understand that my book is about The Harbinger, but almost every design element of my cover was intentionally different to avoid any question of copyright infringement.
However, as a demonstration of good faith we changed the cover without a fuss. Of course, because of our belief that it is vitally important for my book to be available as a response to The Harbinger, and given the threat, we were also concerned that the Charisma lawyers might try to tie things up in the courts and thus keep my book off the market.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: The evidence is in the pictures below. They speak for themselves. Moreover, if you had been right about this, your publishers would not have changed the cover for your more recent editions of your work. The pictures and your act is all the evidence anyone needs in this respect. You can make all of the claims you make here to the contrary, but the pictures speak for themselves and your behavior throughout all of this shows duplicity and intent, because from the onset you or your publishers publicized a literary work that more than resembled another, it was almost as though one had ripped the cover off of The Harbinger and added text to it “Fact or Fiction?” with the recommendation of your confederates and colleagues in this affair. What you call a “demonstration of Good faith” would have been unnecessary if you had not violated law. You would have fought it tooth and nail had you been convinced that it was within your rights to publicize a literary work containing so much of another. What you write above is mere speculation on your part, and your book is already on the markets and I have two copies of it. It is amazing how you can claim something as being of a certain appearance when it is clear to the plain eye and those who can see that it is a copy of another. Again, the pictures speak for themselves.
DAVID JAMES: Now, in an unexpected and inexplicable turn of events, the Charisma attorney claims in the most recent letter (of January 22) that the fact that we changed the cover is itself an admission of guilt on my part that we had indeed infringed copyright.
Mr. James eventually recognized that he had violated Charisma’s trade dress and changed the cover on his critique. That Mr. James infringed Charisma’s rights in its intellectual property with respect to the cover is without dispute. Yet, Mr. James’ admitted infringement is curiously absent from his recent diatribe against my client and its author.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Well isn’t it? You rush your work to publication with a cover that is identical to The Harbinger. The work you publish itself borrows whole and entire paragraphs from The Harbinger without the approval or permission of either its publisher, Charisma House, or its author Pastor and Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, and you think that you haven’t violated the law and ought not to be brought to court for what you’ve done?
The Harbinger Original cover
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Current cover
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Once again, this is not only pure speculation, but the allegation is factually wrong because neither I nor The Berean Call have ever believed that we ever violated Charisma’s trade dress. We did not intend to violate copyright. We intentionally sought to avoid violating copyright. And we continue to believe that we were completely successful in not violating copyright. So, the charge that we admitted guilt in this matter is difficult to comprehend – even baffling.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: This is not speculation. The evidence is right before you. Even the choice of titles itself indicates your intent which you followed through! You could have chosen other titles which would have worked just as well, but in BOLD RED LETTERS one can read THE HARBINGER: Fact or Fiction? Even the coloring of lettering is red like Rabbi Cahn’s book. I have never witnessed a Christian who has coyly and oily I might add justify breaking copy write laws when the evidence for it is right before our eyes and plain for all to see. Look, you don’t fool anyone, and if you do, you only fool yourself and those who willfully want to believe what you’re telling them.
DAVID JAMES: Another odd aspect of this recent letter is that the Charisma lawyer attributed to me the article which was written by T.A. McMahon (referenced above), and called it a “diatribe against Charisma and Jonathan Cahn.” Earlier the letter also states that the article was published on my website—which is also wrong because the article is actually on The Berean Call website. Besides being a bit strange, these are unnecessary “unforced errors” that could have been easily avoided with even the least bit of research.
Returning to the second threat of legal action, the following are excerpts from the first letter concerning that threat.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: These are nothing but dissembling trivialities on your part to manipulate the public’s attention away from what you and Mr. McMahon and others have done, and use clever and inventive speculation to move the public away from the very facts and evidences to those facts right before us that a wrong has been committed against Jonathan Cahn and it has been perpetuated and prolonged by you and your colleagues for almost a year. Clever, but you can’t get past the evidence and what has happened. You can make all sorts of claims, but it doesn’t change a thing. A witch hunt against a fellow Christian has been conducted against that Christian for a prolonged period without a purpose of aversion in completely carrying out the discreditation of that Christian and his book and his publisher. Anyone can see that. Why can’t you?
DAVID JAMES: Dear Mr. James,
Our firm serves as litigation counsel for Charisma Media, publisher of The Harbinger by Rabbi Jonathan Cahn and published by Charisma Media. I write concerning your critique of The Harbinger, The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction (“Fact or Fiction”) and your use of significant portions of The Harbinger’s original copyrighted work in your book. In short, we believe your use of The Harbinger‘s text, which comprises over 10% of your book, constitutes infringement of Charisma Media’s exclusive copyright in the text of your book. We further believe your considerable use of The Harbinger‘s text is not defensible under the fair use doctrine.
Although we have always been confident that my book is well within the boundaries of the fair use doctrine, unfortunately these threats of litigation made it necessary to seek the services of an experienced copyright lawyer. His well-informed opinion is that there is no basis for bringing a lawsuit against us and he sent his findings and conclusions to the Charisma Media attorney in the middle of December. Last week we received the fourth letter as a response to our legal counsel’s letter in which the Charisma lawyer completely rejected the argument in our defense.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Look, you and anybody else knows that a good lawyer can be found to defend any position for the right money. This sounds cynical, but it is not. In today’s high power litigious society, that is the reality and the norm. This is how it is, and regardless of what you claim your attorney told you, the evidence is in the pictures, what you have written against this man and now against his publisher, and the content of what is within your literary work.
DAVID JAMES: Later in the letter, Charisma’s attorney goes on to make further allegations. Specifically, Fact or Fiction was written with the specific purpose of deriving a financial benefit from Charisma Media’s copyrighted materials as evidenced by the original infringing cover for Fact or Fiction; you are profiting from the use of the text, but have not obtained consent or paid a license fee for its use. Although Fact or Fiction purports to be a critique of The Harbinger, your use of The Harbinger’s original and protectible expression, including extensive use of the dialogue created by Rabbi Cahn to analyze Isaiah 9:10, is usurping demand for Rabbi Cahn’s work and will continue to do so as long as Fact or Fiction remains in circulation.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. You and T.A. McMahon would not be making this public and seeking the public’s sympathy and claiming Scriptural authority to justify your methods were you not stone cold scared that you are about to be reprimanded legally for breaking the law. You can make all sorts of claims that you did not disclose any of this to the public for any number of creative reasons you might drum up, but the facts speak for themselves, and after months of pursuing Jonathan Cahn like a pack of hounds on a fox hunt, now you’re scared and crying for help for attempting to make this man’s life as miserable as you could. Only problem; that with every effort that you have put out to do this, it has come upon your heads even more so. This is what happens when one who claims to follow Christ and work in His name defames and persecutes another whom they seek to discredit, shame, marginalize, and all but destroy, oh yes, in the name of the same Christ they claim to serve. R-I-G-H-T…..
DAVID JAMES: Several things can be noted about the above allegations. First, building on the unsubstantiated claim in the first threat concerning the cover of my book, they once again argue that I wrote the book for the specific purpose of deriving financial benefit from Rabbi Cahn’s work. And once again, this is pure speculation from a legal perspective, clearly judgmental from a moral perspective, and from a factual perspective it couldn’t be further from the truth.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Actions speak louder than words. Your words do not mitigate your actions or what you have done. The Lord Jesus’ words are prophetic and so applicable to the current situation: “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart. The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil. But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
(Matthew 12:33-38)
Word reveal character. When a person speaks evil of another and does everything they can to destroy everything that other person has worked for in Christ, and they do this in Christ’s name and use the Scriptures to justify their methods and their behavior, they have not served Christ, but have done a great disservice to that name which they claim to honor. Men have done this throughout history. REPENT. HUMBLE YOURSELVES BEFORE GOD AND REPENT. SEEK GOD AND PRAY AND ASK HIS FORGIVENESS, AND THEN FOLLOW THE SCRIPTURAL MODEL, WHAT IS THE SCRIPTURAL MODEL? IT IS GIVEN BY OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST:
“You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.”
(Matthew 5:21-26)
Do this. Do this now, and cease and desist from further conflicts with other Christians. This is not biblical method of conflict resolution among Christians, and it is not right in God’ s eyes for one brother to seek to discredit another and defame him over doctrinal matters. There is a right and Christ-like manner in speaking the truth in love, and forgiveness, and this has not been employed by you or your colleagues at all. Jonathan Cahn tried to speak with you several times, but once you had interviewed him by phone and obtained further material for your book (you admit this in it), you threw him aside and rebuffed all of his attempts to contact you. What’s more your bellicosity towards him has become evident as the months progressed and now it’s white hot with this recent post. Your use of “rabbi” speaks volumes of what is in your heart towards this man. It is not nice.
Do the right thing. Do what Christ in the Scriptures you claim to uphold would have you do. Read it again and again until it hits home in your heart, and then seek the Lord and pray about this. Then seek your brother out and apologize for what you have done. Really, this needs to be done right away and not just by you, but by everyone involved. Gentlemen, brethren; you need to reconcile, you need to seek the one you’ve hurt, and you need to make amens. The sin is great and it has gone beyond just the public, it has now reached the throne of God. You don’t agree? You think it’s just my writing? This upstart? Check the Scriptures for yourselves. YOU WILL BE BROUGHT TO ACCOUNT FOR EVERY WORD YOU HAVE UTTERED AGAINT THIS MAN AND AGAINST THE HARBINGER. I have personally pleaded with you before on this, for your sake, not anyone else’s and you have ignored my warnings. The more you press this, the more it will press you. What you seek to do will be done to you and more besides. That is the biblical principle. But what does the Scripture say?
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation. Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. “But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
(Romans 12:14-21)
You count yourselves ambassadors for Christ? Then open your hearts to your brother whom you’ve maligned all of these months, and allow him in, but not for the purposes of trying to use what he says against him, like you did with your book, but for the purposes of reaching an amicable agreement all parties can arrive at in order to resolve the current situation according to everyone’s satisfaction, but most importantly of all, in a manner worthy of the calling on your lives, and worthy of Christ’s approval.
DAVID JAMES: Second, the phrase “purports to be a critique” clearly suggests that I intentionally employed a ruse in order to deceive the public by making my book only appear to be a critique, but with the real alleged purpose being to profit financially from Rabbi Cahn’s work. One has to wonder if someone could scan my book in even the most cursory way and then suggest that The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction is anything but a very serious and well-researched critique of The Harbinger.
Third, the Charisma lawyer contends that because of quoting The Harbinger to the degree that I did, demand for my book has undermined demand for their book. Through this they argue that I have been accumulating sales for myself while denying what would have been sales for Jonathan Cahn. Once again, it is difficult to express how far removed from reality this charge really is. When my book was released in early August, I believe the sales of The Harbinger were somewhere in the neighborhood of 700,000 copies sold. Then in January (as previously noted) it was reported that Jonathan Cahn had achieved two important milestones during the 2012 calendar year. The first was that his book had surpassed one million copies sold (meaning that nearly one third of his sales have happened since the appearance of Fact or Fiction). The second milestone was that at the end of 2012 it was the longest running Christian book currently on The New York Times bestsellers list.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: David, you are as oily as they came. Just by what you write above, and let me quote you; Second, the phrase “purports to be a critique” clearly suggests that I intentionally employed a ruse in order to deceive the public by making my book only appear to be a critique, but with the real alleged purpose being to profit financially from Rabbi Cahn’s work, gives you away as nothing but a crank; someone who rushed a book based on a colossal misunderstanding of The Harbinger’s pretext and context, as well as its historical import, in order to ride the coattails of its success. The fact that you used the word HARBINGER as part of your title, emblazoned it in the same bold red color of Rabbi Cahn’s book, and used the backdrop of New York City is evidence of the deception – intentional or otherwise. You can’t deny this; the pictures speak for themselves. Neither can you deny that even though every effort was made by Rabbi Cahn on multiple occasions to contact both you and others in your group, after you initial April, 2012 interview with him – which you cite in the Preface of your book, and use as content to discredit what he said; you rebuffed his efforts to mitigate the misunderstandings you had with his book, and bring the entire affair to an amicable conclusion. You had no interest in this by the rush to get your book to market as soon as possible, and don’t tell me that you agonized over this for months, because you know the truth. Now for the first time, you are being taken to task for your own infraction against someone else, and you don’t like it. So you run to the public to get them to feel sorry for you and perhaps to buy your book in the process and send you money for your defense, but you and your confederates in this entire contemptible affair have for almost a year been at Rabbi Cahn’s heels making every effort to discredit him and to tarnish his good name. Of course you ought to be taken to court and made to account for what you have done. And don’t think it will end there sir, some day you and your friends will have to account to Almighty God for this. You have tried to make the life and service of another servant of Christ a living hell from day one, and now you are getting your just rewards for it. You and your colleagues have sown to the wind and now you and they are reaping the whirlwind. You could have avoided this.
DAVID JAMES: Unfortunately, the most recent letter from Charisma’s legal counsel further expands the range of allegations and accusations against us to include a charge of defamation of character:
Second, I write to put you on notice that Mr. James’ recent fund raising efforts at the expense of both Charisma and Rabbi Cahn are defamatory in nature and intentionally designed to impugn both Charisma and Rabbi Cahn’s character for the benefit of Mr. James.
Once again, in this new threat, the Charisma lawyer gets so many factual things wrong that it should be almost embarrasing. He accuses me personally of 1) trying to raise funds with the article, 2) by defaming Charisma and Rabbi Cahn; 3) then claims that it was intentional, 4) and further alleges that it was designed to impugn their character, 5) and finally argues that I did it with the intent to accrue personal financial benefit to me.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: You can call them allegations and accusations, but what you and your colleagues have done for a period of almost a year are not allegations and accusations, or are you not aware of them? You think that for a year, you’ve lived in a vacuum? That you have not written or said, or discussed with your colleagues anything about and against Rabbi Cahn, his ministry, or his book? Do you call your own statements, written material on your website and theirs, and what you write here below, and what you say in your book “NOTHING” !? You may think that you might be able to get away with this in a court of law with a very good high priced attorney at your side, but MARK THESE WORDS SIR, YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TALK YOUR WAY OUT OF THE COURT OF GOD’S JUDGMENT FOR WHAT YOU AND THEY HAVE SAID, WRITTEN, AND DONE TO RABBI CAHN. HE HAS NOT SPOKEN ABOUT YOU, NOR HAS HE APPEARED ANYWHERE TO MAKE YOU AND YOUR BOOK THE DISCUSSION, BUT THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE DONE FOR ALMOST A YEAR, AND ARE DOING HERE.
DAVID JAMES: Where do I begin?
1. I didn’t write the article and was only aware of it shortly before it was published on The Berean Call (not my) website. As previously noted, Tom McMahon wrote the article and it was approved by The Berean Call Board of Directors. (The full article can be found here: http://www.thebereancall.org/content/demise-biblical-discernment)
2. There is nothing in the article that makes any reference to money whatsoever. There is no appeal for funds and it was never intended to be a fund-rasing effort. The only thing that McMahon requests anywhere in the article is that believers make this a matter of prayer.
3. There was no intention to defame Charisma or Jonathan Cahn. There is a well-documented pattern of repeated attempts by Jonathan Cahn to contain and respond to any and all criticism of The Harbinger. This has happened time and again – and a video on YouTube is available where Cahn specifically (and quite cynically and sarcastically) responds to the critics of The Harbinger (with many swipes at things I have written and said)—and yet he offers no specifics whatsoever.
4. It seems to me that the accusation that I intentionally impugned Charisma and Jonathan Cahn’s character for the purpose of financial gain, while using demonstrably false information, is the very definition of defamation itself. Who has defamed whom? And since this is in the context of claiming that my book is damaging sales of The Harbinger this obviously raises the question of exactly who is pursuing this for financial gain. The reader can decide.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Whether you wrote the article or not, you are complicit in its contents because it is based upon what you say in your book, and it is not just the article that is at play here, but much more. We’re talking about interviews with Jimmy DeYoung, interviews with Brannon Howse, interviews and discussions over the span of eleven or twelve months, Internet articles based upon what you have written about The Harbinger – entirely a colossal misunderstanding and misinterpretation of The Harbinger. Intentional or not; you and your colleagues have made Jonathan Cahn, The Harbinger, Jonathan Cahn’s teachings, and Charisma House Publishers the topic of your discussions for months now, and the evidence is in every radio broadcast (that can be subpoenaed in a court of law as evidence), that you have targeted this man and his book and his ministry and his teachings, and the publisher of his book for a protracted period of time. WHY?
Let us define defamation. The act of defamation is defined as:
Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, traducement, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation a negative or inferior image. This can be also any disparaging statement made by one person about another, which is communicated or published, whether true or false, depending on legal state. In common law it is usually a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant).[1]
In common law jurisdictions, slander refers to a malicious, false,[2][not specific enough to verify] and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images.[3] Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism. Related to defamation is public disclosure of private facts, which arises where one person reveals information that is not of public concern, and the release of which would offend a reasonable person. "Unlike [with] libel, truth is not a defense for invasion of privacy."[4][not verified in body]
Defamation, Wikipedia, the Online Encyclopedia
Below in your discussion, you allow as moderator to be brought up in your discussions, Rabbi Cahn’s personal Rabbinical credentials, and whether or not he has any formal teaching according to your interpretation of the term. This is personal data which does not bear on the topic of your discussion. If indeed, as you claim, you have not done any of the things of which you claim you are being accused, then why this? Then why even bring it up and discuss it here before the public? Especially when it might be in litigation? There is a body of evidence built up over a span of one year that will make you account for what you and your colleagues have written, said, and discusses among yourselves about Rabbi Cahn. Just the article below is additional evidence in this affair.
I have the transcript which I wrote of an interview between Brannon Howse and Jimmy DeYoung, where The Harbinger is trashed and Rabbi Cahn called a false teacher and false prophet by Jimmy DeYoung with no effort on Brannon Howse’s part, who is interviewing Mr. DeYoung to correct Mr. DeYoung for making such comments on his radio show without having met Jonathan Cahn or read his book! And that is just one example. Can we cite more?
DAVID JAMES: Returning to the accusation that I exceeded fair use of The Harbinger in my book and thus have violated copyright law, the following salient points are provided from the Citizen Media Law Project website.
The Four Fair Use Factors
1. Purpose and Character of Your Use
If you use another’s copyrighted work for the purpose of criticism, news reporting, or commentary, this use will weigh in favor of fair use. See Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, 510 U.S. 569, 578 (1994). Purposes such as these are often considered “in the public interest” and are favored by the courts over uses that merely seek to profit from another’s work. Online Policy Group v. Diebold, Inc., 337 F. Supp. 2d 1195, 1203 (N.D. Cal. 2004). When you put copyrighted material to new use, this furthers the goal of copyright to “promote the progress of science and useful arts.”
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: You can quote the exact law verbatim; BUT YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACT THAT YOU QUOTED EXTENSIVELY FROM RABBI CAHN’S WORK WITHOUT FIRST SEEKING HIS PERMISSION OR PERMISSION FROM HIS PUBLISHER. THIS ALONE IS AN INAPPROPRIATE ACT FOR A CHRISTIAN. YOU HAVE TAKEN COPY WRITED MATERIAL – THAT IS MATERIAL THAT IS THE PROPERTY OF ANOTHER – AND YOU HAVE USED IT WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION. YOU HAVE DONE MORE: YOU HAVE USED THAT COPY WRITED MATERIAL AND PROPERTY OF THAT OTHER PARTY AGAINST THEM.
DAVID JAMES: In evaluating the purpose and character of your use, a court will look to whether the new work you’ve created is “transformative” and adds a new meaning or message. To be transformative, a use must add to the original “with a further purpose or different character, altering the first with new expression, meaning, or message.” Campbell, 510 U.S. at 579. Although transformative use is not absolutely necessary, the more transformative your use is, the less you will have to show on the remaining three factors.
Clearly, my book, The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? meets this criteria. I am not seeking to merely profit from Cahn’s work as has been alleged. Rather my work is both completely transformative and is “in the public interest,” while putting the material in The Harbinger to a completely new use. There is no copyright violation.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: What you have done sir, is unethical, un-Christian, and contemptible. You can cite actual cases and make excuses for what you’ve done to justify yourself, but you have initiated by your own action, written and verbal, an attack against another and have done this beginning with your work and have carried through to this very hour over a public forum. You and your colleagues have not abated in your attacks, but have continued them, and brought them to new levels, and have fostered a scandalous polemic almost nationally against a man and his work while promoting your own work which borrows from his extensively – I have your book remember – two copies in fact, one with notes of my own – and now you have brought his publisher to the public for sympathy and support (not defined what type here) so that you may garner public opinion over to your side. This is after spending the better part of almost a year in this against this man! Horrendous! AND YOU THINK YOU ARE GUILTLESS – YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES – OF NOTHING!? TALK ABOUT DECEPTION AND BEING DECEIVED!
DAVID JAMES: 2. Nature of the Copyrighted Work
In examining this factor, a court will look to whether the material you have used is factual or creative, and whether it is published or unpublished. Although non-fiction works such as biographies and news articles are protected by copyright law, their factual nature means that one may rely more heavily on these items and still enjoy the protections of fair use. Unlike factual works, fictional works are typically given greater protection in a fair use analysis. So, for example, taking newsworthy quotes from a research report is more likely to be protected by fair use than quoting from a novel. However, this question is not determinative, and courts have found fair use of fictional works in some of the pivotal cases on the subject. See, e.g., Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios, Inc., 464 U.S. 417, 456 (1984).
Once again, my book meets this criteria because as the author states in his note at the beginning of The Harbinger, “What you are about to read is presented in the form of a story, but what is contained within the story is real.” Furthermore, Jonathan Cahn has stated publicly in a radio interview with Brannon Howse that his book is only 10% fiction and 90% factual. Again, there is no copyright violation.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: A court of law will determine this. Yes, it can be proven that The Harbinger is based upon factual events of historical import collected in narrative form. The facts are there and a fictional narrative has been created around them in order to present those facts. This is why it says: “What you are about to read is presented in the form of a story, but what is contained within the story is real.” The traffic evens of Tuesday, September 11th, 2001 happened. The beam that struck the Sycamore Tree at Ground Zero happened. The stock market crash happened. The cross beam that became a symbol of America’s faith in the aftermath of 9/11 happened. Senator John Edwards and Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle’s speeches commemorating September 11th at our nation’s capital happened. Their use in quoting the prophecy of Isaiah 9:10 and connecting it to the tragic events of September 11th happened. President Obama’s speech at our nation’s capital in which he paraphrased the same quote from the prophet Isaiah happened. The replanting at Ground Zero happened. The rebuilding at Ground Zero with the laying of the polished stone form the quarries of upper New York happened. In short, everything that is of an actual event that has taken place are the facts of this book. It cannot be disputed. Nor can it be disputed how all of these are connected to Ground Zero, to this nation’s founding, to even the pattern of judgment which followed both the prophecy of Isaiah two thousand seven hundred years ago, or in the aftermath of September 11th, 2001 and since. These are the facts in Rabbi Cahn’s book, The Harbinger, which you seem to contest or overlook in your own polemical work against his which you rushed to market as soon as you and T.A. McMahon saw how successful Rabbi Cahn’s book became immediately upon its release in 2012.
DAVID JAMES: 3. Amount and Substantiality of the Portion Used
Unfortunately, there is no single guide that definitively states how much of a copyrighted work you can use without copyright liability. Instead, courts look to how such excerpts were used and what their relation was to the whole work. If the excerpt in question diminishes the value of the original or embodies a substantial part of the efforts of the author, even an excerpt may constitute an infringing use.
If you limit your use of copyrighted text, video, or other materials to only the portion that is necessary to accomplish your purpose or convey your message, it will increase the likelihood that a court will find your use is a fair use.
Of course, if you are reviewing a book or movie, you may need to reprint portions of the copyrighted work in the course of reviewing it in order to make you points. Even substantial quotations may qualify as fair use in “a review of a published work or a news account of a speech that had been delivered to the public or disseminated to the press.” Harper & Row, Publishers, Inc. v. Nation Enters., 471 U.S. 539, 564 (1985). However, substantial quotations from non-public sources or unpublished works do not enjoy the same protections.
There are two relevant and important issues in meeting the third criteria for fair use that can be observed. The first is that the “over 10%” of The Harbinger that I quoted (referred to by the Charisma attorney) is irrelevant when the other criteria are considered. The 10% is an arbitrary number with no legal significance. Far less than 10% can violate fair use if the other criteria are not met, while far more than 10% can be used if they are. Quotes from The Harbinger do comprise over 10% of my book, but they are also under 13%.
Similarly, I only quoted a little more than 10% of The Harbinger, which in the context of such an indepth and detailed critique is a very small amount. I could have easily quoted much more to further bolster my argument, but was careful to use no more than necessary to keep from being accused of taking things of out context.
However, more importantly, relevant to the second major point, my use of The Harbinger clearly qualifies as fair use because it is “a review of a published work…”
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Can you define for your readers and mine here what is ten percent of another’s work? Do you measure this by paragraph? By number of words? By content? IT STILL ESCAPES YOUR NOTICE, AS DOES A GOOD MANY OTHER THINGS, THAT YOU TOOK ANOTHER PERSON’S PROPERTY WITHOUT THAT PERSON’S PERMISION AND USED IT FOR YOUR OWN PROFIT. WHAT’S MORE YOU USED THAT OTHER PERSON’S PROPERTY TO DISCREDIT THAT PROPERTY AND BY EXTENSION ITS OWNER WITHIN YOUR OWN AGAIN FOR PROFIT, BECAUSE YOU DID NOT GIVE YOUR BOOK AWAY, BUT HAVE SOLD IT, AND PROFITED FROM ITS SALES. ARE YOU AWARE OF THIS SIR? IF YOUR BOOK IS A REVIEW OF A PUBLISHED WORK, THEN WHY ARE YOU SELLING IT? WHY NOT GIVE IT AWAY? NO, IT IS NOT A REVIEW OF A PUBLISHED WORK, BUT A POLEMIC AGAINST IT FROM WHICH YOU AND YOUR PUBLISHER ARE NOW PROFITTING THROUGH ITS SALES.
DAVID JAMES: 4. The Effect of Your Use Upon the Potential Market for the Copyrighted Work
In examining the fourth factor, which courts tend to view as the most important factor, a court will look to see how much the market value of the copyrighted work is affected by the use in question. This factor will weigh in favor of the copyright holder if “unrestricted and widespread” use similar to the one in question would have a “substantially adverse impact” on the potential market for the work…
Assessing the impact on a copyrighted work’s market value often overlaps with the third factor because the amount and importance of the portion used will often determine how much value the original loses. For instance, the publication of five lines from a 100 page epic poem will not hurt the market for the original in the same way as the publication of the entirety of a five-line poem.
This fourth factor is concerned only with economic harm caused by substitution for the original, not by criticism. That your use harms the copyright holder through negative publicity or by convincing people of your critical point of view is not part of the analysis. As the Supreme Court has stated:
[W]hen a lethal parody, like a scathing theater review, kills demand for the original, it does not produce a harm cognizable under the Copyright Act. Because “parody may quite legitimately aim at garroting the original, destroying it commercially as well as artistically,” the role of the courts is to distinguish between ‘[b]iting criticism [that merely] suppresses demand [and] copyright infringement[, which] usurps it.’”
The significance of this point cannot be overstated because the Charisma attorney contends that my book is usurping demand (his words) for his client’s book. However, it can be easily argued that the controversy surrounding the entire issue has only served to increase demand for The Harbinger as evidenced by the 300,000+ copies that have been sold since the release of my book.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: What you write above as a contention against liability towards another is immaterial, because regardless of the sales of the book, you have profited and so has the Berean Call who published your work, from the sales of your book. Since your book contains large parts of the another’s property, then that other party ought to be compensated for the sales of your work. If you had asked permission for the use of Rabbi Cahn’s work and been given it by either him or Charisma House (whichever of the two owns the property rights to his book), then you can make your arguments against liability in this case and for the fair use of another’s property. It does not hold for those two reasons. There are other reasons that I am sure that the Charisma Attorneys will cite, but those of two that come to mind. Don’t you even realize what you have done here? Are you that far gone in your thinking and so self-righteous that you cannot understand what you have done to another person – a brother in Christ – and make all manner of excuses for it without repentance? Without remorse? Without the slightest circumspection on your part!? Have you no sense of decency and fair play? You and your colleagues have hounded this man for about a year! A year!
DAVID JAMES: In summary, although courts will balance all four factors when assessing fair use, the fair use defense is most likely to apply when the infringing use involves criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. In addition, some general rules of thumb can be helpful in analyzing fair use:
- A use that transforms the original work in some way is more likely to be a fair use;
- A non-profit use is more likely to be considered a fair use than a for-profit use;
- A shorter excerpt is more likely to be a fair use than a long one; and
- A use that cannot act as a replacement for the original work is more likely to be a fair use than one that can serve as a replacement.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Look: you took something that belongs to somebody else and have made a profit from it without compensating that other party for use of their material, plain and simple. In your own book, I quote the following:
“The publisher (the Berean Call) reserves all rights, but encourages readers to quote material from this book for reviews or instructional purposes, PROVIDED THAT: THE EXCERPT IS NOT LONGER THAN 500 WORDS AND IS NOT THE PRIMARY CONTENT OF A WORK FOR SALE;; THAT THE CONTEXT AND CONTENT ARE PRESERVED AND NOT ALTERED; AND THAT FULL CREDIT IS PROPERLY GIVEN TO THE SOURCE. For further information, see the Publisher’s website: www.thebereancall.org.”
The primary content of your work is the property of another, because the topic of your work IS THE WORK OF ANOTHER. HOW IS THIS SO? THE ENTIRE CONTENT OF WHAT YOUR WORK IS ABOUT IS THE HARBINGER, ANOTHER PERSON’S WORK, ANOTHER PERSON’S PROPERTY, ANOTHER PERSON’S PROFITS OF WHICH NOW IN YOUR WORK CONTAINING LARGE PORTIONS OF ANOTHER’S WORK IN IT IS IN ITSELF PROFITING YOU AND YOUR PUBLISHER WIHTOUT DUE COMPENSATION TO THAT OTHER PERSON FROM WHOM YOU HAVE BORROWED PROPERTY BELONGING TO HIM WIHTOUT PERMISSION AND HAVE SOLD FOR PROFIT FOR YOURSELF. CHARISMA HOUSE PUBLISHERS, NOR JONATHAN CAHN HAS PROFITED FROM YOUR WORK, BECAUSE YOU AND OR YOUR PUBLISHER HAVE NOT COMPENSATED EITHER JONATHAN CAHN OR CHARISMA PUBLISHERS FROM THE PROFITS OF YOUR OWN WORK WHICH BORROWS EXTENSIVELY FROM HIS WIHTOUT HIS PERMISSION OR PERMISSION FROM HIS PUBLISHER, BOTH OF WHOM HAVE NOT BEEN COMPENSATED FROM THE SALES OF YOUR BOOK, AND SHOULD BE FOR IT. AGAIN, I ASK; ARE YOU AND MR. MCMAHON THAT FAR GONE IN YOUR THINKING THAT YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU BOTH HAVE STARTED WITH THIS!? ARE YOU BOTH SO SELF-RIGHTEOUS, SO NARCISSISTIC IN YOUR THINKING THAT YOU DO NOT SEE THE INFRACTION THAT YOU HAVE COMMITTED AGAINST A BROTHER IN CHRIST FOR ALMOST A YEAR!? YOU ARE NOT DEALING WITH A CULT OR A CULT LEADER, YOU ARE GOING AFTER A CHRISTIAN EVANGELICAL BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN BROTHER AND FELLOW SERVANT IN CHRIST OF MANY YEARS, WITHOUT REMORSE, WITHOUT REPENTANCE, WITHOUT CIRCUMSPECTION, AND WITHOUT MERCY, DEVOID OF CHRISTIAN CHARITY AND LOVE. TOTALLY DEFIANT AND SELF-DEFINING. THE DECEPTION IS SO GREAT THAT IT BOGGLES THE IMAGINATION. THE SELF-DECEPTION OF “DISCERNMENT” WHEN IT IS NOTHING BUT A BOLD AND RAW PUBLIC PERSECUTION OF A BROTHER IN CHRIST IS BEYOND ANYTHING THAT I IN ALMOST 37 YEARS IN CHRIST HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFETIME.
DAVID JAMES: One has to wonder why such an influential media empire like Charisma Media would threaten a lawsuit against an essentially unknown individual, particularly when my book falls so far within the boundaries of the fair use doctrine. But more importantly, why would a Christian organization (Charisma Media), with a Christian founder and CEO (Steve Strang), along with a local church pastor (Jonathan Cahn) threaten to sue another believer in this way, particularly in light of what the apostle Paul says about such lawsuits in 1 Corinthians 6?
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: If there were an Apostolic Council to which Christians could bring their differences and litigate them to their resolution as there were in Paul’s day, to which he alludes to where he writes of lawsuits between Christians (1Corinthians 6:1-7) I would agree with their contention; but in the absence of such an Apostolic Council, there is no recourse but to litigate in a civil court matters of enumeration where the actions of one or more parties result in great and inestimable loses to the injured party.
There is no estimation to the kind of damage that these people have done to Pastor Cahn and his ministry, and how it has affected his personal life and ministry. Such matters are difficult to estimate, but the damage has been done, because their actions by publishing this book – The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? and their statements about Pastor Cahn and his ministry have been nothing short of slanderous. I have heard and have in my possession a horrendous interview hosted by Brannon Howse where Jimmy DeYoung, basing his opinions on what David James had told him at the time, used all manner of epithets against Jonathan Cahn; calling him everything from “false prophet” to “false teacher” and trashing his book, his ministry and bringing into question his calling in Christ. Mr. DeYoung had not read Pastor Cahn’s New York Times best-seller The Harbinger when he made these statements on Brannon Howse’s Worldview Weekend Radio program.
You cannot put a dollar figure to the damage these people have done to Pastor Cahn and his ministry in their continual attacks upon him, upon his book and what they claim it says, and upon his ministry. It is not our place as Christians to work towards delegitimize other Christians and seek their total and complete marginalization and their destruction of their service for God. It is one thing to write of cults and cult leaders, but to write to marginalize other Christians in the name of discernment and apologetics is nothing short of unchristian slander and fomenting controversies, thereby furnishing the enemies of Christianity fodder to their attacks upon the Christian faith. There is no place in one Christian who displays such a log obscuring their own judgment in forcing themselves upon another Christian to remove a speck they claim is in his. (Matthew 7:4, Luke 6:42)
DAVID JAMES: None of this makes any sense from a biblical, ethical, legal or financial perspective. One has to wonder exactly what is the motivation behind this. Why is it so necessary to try make it so difficult to keep my book, The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? on the market. Why all this effort to get it off the market?
One thing we do know is that my book is presently the only one that has been written and published which exposes the many significant problems in The Harbinger. And as the influence of The Harbinger in America continues to increase, the need for people to also read The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? is greater than ever. We hope you will take time to read it if you haven’t – and if you do, please take time to leave a brief review on Amazon.com because these are extremely important in the process of getting the message into the hands of more and more people.
Once again, we covet your prayers, not only in relation to the threatened legal action against us, but also concerning getting the important information in my book into the hands of believers who have been influenced, confused and misled by The Harbinger, the accompanying DVD and the dozens of interviews and messages by Jonathan Cahn.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: It doesn’t make any sense to you and your colleagues because you have exonerated yourselves from accountability in this, because you believe yourselves unimpeachable by anyone. Yet you fail to understand that in your zeal, you have over the course of months, as you do here, slung all sorts of mud in Jonathan Cahn’s direction. Without mercy, you have treated this man; this brother in Christ with the utmost contempt. And you know what is so sad about the whole matter?
You haven’t the foggiest inkling or idea of what you’ve done! In your eyes, your behavior, your actions against this man, and your writings are justified, and not only justified, but a must. This is how twisted your thinking has become. You honestly see yourselves as righteous defenders of the faith and the truth, and you view all others outside of your immediate circle – Evangelical Christians included, as suspects answerable to you. The Harbinger hasn’t confused anyone, you have.
DAVID JAMES: If you want to stand with us in the midst of this challenge, please take a moment to shoot me an email at dave@jamesjournal.org.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: I cannot stand with you, but I oppose what you have done. Have you no idea what you have let loose!? Do you not see for yourself that you have dragged the good name of a servant, a fellow servant of Christ; through the mud, slandered his good name; disregarded his attempts to contact you and your colleagues in the past (DON’T DENY THIS, YOU KNOW HE DID! AND GOD WILL HOLD YOU TO ACCOUNT FOR SAYING OTHERWISE.), to address your concerns, but you brushed him off, and then treated him worse than an unbeliever. Your colleagues have called him a mystic, a Kabbalist, a gnostic, a heretic, a false teacher, a false prophet, a deceiver, one who equivocates, and every other epithet you could find in the English language to destroy a person, who until he wrote his book, you had never heard of, and had never said or done a single thing against you. HOW DARE YOU SEEK THE PUBLIC’S SYMPATHY WHEN IT HAS BEEN YOU AND YOUR COLLEAGUES ALL ALONG WHO HAVE DONE THESE THINGS TO THIS MAN, JUST AS YOU CONTINUE TO DO IT HERE!? THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL, THIS IS NOT CHRIST-LIKE, AND THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT EITHER OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST OR ANY OF THIS APOSTLES AND FOLLOWERS WOULD HAVE APPROVED. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOU!? IN THE PAST YOU EXPOSED CULTS AND THEIR LEADERS, BUT NOW YOU HAVE FOCUSED INWARD TO CHRISTIANS LIKE YOURSELF WHOM YOU HAVE DOCTRINAL DISAGREEMENTS WITH. THERE IS A PLACE FOR EXPOSING CULTS AND CULTISTS, BUT THERE IS NO PLACE IN THE BODY OF CHRIST OR IN SCRIPTURE WHERE CHRISTIANS ARE TO TARGET OTHER CHRISTIANS OVER MATTERS OF DOCTRINAL OR THEOLOGICAL DISPUTES AND DIFFERENCES OF INTERPRETATION. What is being done to this man is beyond anything that I have witnessed in all of my years in service to Christ. I have never seen such a thing as what you and your colleagues have done here in the Evangelical World. This is precedent setting, and a clear sign that we are living in the end times. This is today’s religious opposition to God, His warning to this age, and to His servants, and IT IS COMING FROM WITHIN!
35 Responses to Threatened Lawsuit by The Harbinger Publisher & Author
Marty says:
I have to ask, did the writers of the critique seek permission from Cahn to use his material in writing their book? If not, then wouldn’t it seem right to have done that first or even invite Mr. Cahn to a private discussion to address the issues first – as Matt 18 teaches us to do – then drag his name and work thru the mud. I don’t know Cahn or even agree with his work, but I have to say, from a Berean point of view – You folks need to apologize to this man. Matt 18 brothers, Matt 18.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Marty, you are absolutely correct and with great discernment in this matter. It is your prerogative to agree or disagree, I do not dispute that, but I would encourage you to read The Harbinger and then judge for yourself. Many of these critics have not. Many of them, like Jimmy DeYoung trashed the book and called Rabbi Cahn a false teacher and false prophet on the Brannon Howse radio program though he had not read The Harbinger. And they have treated this brother in Christ with the utmost contempt since. Now they’re crying foul because someone had the courage to hit back in their own defense. For almost a year now, all of these men have done everything possible short of murder to destroy, marginalize, demonize, and discredit the man and his ministry and his book. This is why David James below uses “rabbi” to describe Pastor and Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, as a means to disparage and discredit Pastor Cahn. THIS IS BELOW A SERVANT OF CHRIST TO DO TO ANOTHER SERVANT OF CHRIST. AS TIME PROGRESSES, YOU WILL MAKE YOURSELF EVIDENT TO EVERYONE YOU PUBLICLY ADDRESS ON THIS MATTER. SO YOU HAVE SOUGHT TO DO TO YOUR FELLOW BROTHER, IT SHALL COME DOWN ON YOU BY YOUR OWN DOING.
Lou de Louzada says:
I don’t blame Pastor Cahn one bit. So called discernment ministries and individuals have hounded this man with dogmatic relentlessness bordering on hate-mongering. And For What! If they really want to go after real heretics, go after the religious left, Calvinists, and all those Christian democrats who vote again and again and again for politicians who think it’s just dandy to murder the unborn. Nothing Pastor Cahn wrote or said is going to lead the Church down the slippery slope into apostasy like the post-modern Christendom.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Good for you Lou. You are absolutely right in this matter. AND NOW I ADDRESS MYSELF ONCE MORE TO DAVID JAMES AND THE OTHER SELF-APPOINTED AVATARS OF DISCERNMENT: HAVE YOU NOT UNDERSTOOD THAT EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO TO ANOTHER, ESPECIALLY THOSE OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF THE FAITH, YOU DO TO CHRIST? WOULD YOU THEN TREAT CHRIST IN THIS MANNER AS YOU HAVE TREATED THIS MAN!? HOW DARE YOU IN THE NAME OF CHRIST DRAG THIS MAN WHO SERVES HIM UNSELFESSLY EVERY DAY THROUGH THE MUD AND SLANDER HIS GOOD NAME FOR THE NAME YOU BOTH CALL HOLY!? YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING A GOD A SERVICE BY THIS!? YOU HAVE BROUGHT DISCORD AND CONTROVERSY AND DIVISION TO THE BODY OF CHRIST, AND NOW IT HAS COME UPON YOU AND YOUR ALLIES ALL THAT WHAT YOU HAVE DONE TO ONE WHO DID NOT AND HAS NOT SINCE THE DAY YOU CHOSE TO WAR AGAINST HIM, SAID OR DONE A SINGLE THING AGAINST YOU OR YOUR WORK!? WHAT MANNER OF DISCERNMENT IS THIS!? WHAT MANNER OF SERVICE IS THIS!? HOW DARE YOU DRAG YOUR BROTHER MERCILESSLY AND CONTEMPTIOUSLY THROUGH DAY AFTER DAY OF BITTER PERSECUTION IN THE PRETENSE THAT WHAT YOU DO, YOU DO FOR THE LORD! WHAT YOU DO HERE, AND THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU ARE TRYING TO WIN THE PUBLIC’S SYMPATHY AND APPROVAL AT THE EXPENSE OF ANOTHER IS CONTEMPTIBLE. TAKE HEED TO YOURSELF! TAKE HEED TO YOUR WORDS!
Lou,
There are at least a couple of issues at stake here:
1. What does one do about the biblical principle admonishing us to not take a brother to court in 1 Cor. 6?
2. Why would well-respected ministries do this if there weren’t a real problem?
3. Have you read my book so that you can determine whether or not there are real issues with The Harbinger that need to be dealt with publicly?
4. Is not mishandling the Scriptures, and also misrepresenting historical events to manufacture a story to make it seem that it is from God a serious issue?
5. We do continue to deal with all these other things. If you trust us to deal with those things, wouldn’t it make sense to give us a bit more trust in this matter, too? If you think we almost always get it right concerning other issues, why is it that you think we got it wrong on this one? We have approached it in exactly the same way, holding it to the same standards.
5. Is not claiming to bring a message from God that is demonstrably not a very, very serious issue?
6. Who is it that has said anything mean or nasty about Cahn or questioned his motives? Who is it that has been hate-mongering?
7. How is it that almost every response to us is like yours – very emotional, while no one has even attempted to challenge the truth of what I have written?
1. What does one do about the biblical principle admonishing us to not take a brother to court in 1 Cor. 6?
2. Why would well-respected ministries do this if there weren’t a real problem?
3. Have you read my book so that you can determine whether or not there are real issues with The Harbinger that need to be dealt with publicly?
4. Is not mishandling the Scriptures, and also misrepresenting historical events to manufacture a story to make it seem that it is from God a serious issue?
5. We do continue to deal with all these other things. If you trust us to deal with those things, wouldn’t it make sense to give us a bit more trust in this matter, too? If you think we almost always get it right concerning other issues, why is it that you think we got it wrong on this one? We have approached it in exactly the same way, holding it to the same standards.
5. Is not claiming to bring a message from God that is demonstrably not a very, very serious issue?
6. Who is it that has said anything mean or nasty about Cahn or questioned his motives? Who is it that has been hate-mongering?
7. How is it that almost every response to us is like yours – very emotional, while no one has even attempted to challenge the truth of what I have written?
Doesn’t this all seem rather odd to you? Just asking…
Dave
Dave
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: On my website The Pepster’s Post: A Voice in Cyberspace, in a post titled The Harbinger’s Critics Toss Filthy Rags for Public Sympathy, I write the following in answer to those who question the issue of lawsuits and Christians, I quote:
I am very glad that the Berean Call under the leadership Thomas A. McMahon and the Alliance for Biblical Integrity whose president and founder, author David James, who wrote the book that began the entire controversy; have come out in public with this – as they’ve done with a good many other things – because it has accorded me the opportunity to write about it myself and address once again some glaring inconsistencies and whole inaccuracies in both McMahon’s and James’ contentious statements.
Obviously these two gentlemen love to tussle and get into all sorts of controversies and it appears that while hiding behind the Scriptures, they often misuse the Scriptures to foment all sorts of arguments between different Christians as they “contend (against other Christians) for the faith” which they have appointed themselves defenders of. The Berean Call in its day used to contend with the cults, but it has since appeared to refocus its energies against other Christians with whom they hold doctrinal differences.
They have never been challenged by anyone, and now that they are, they’re seeking sympathy and running towards the arms of the public in order to garner support for their side of this entire imbroglio they were the first to foment. They’re like the proverbial trouble maker in school who shoots a spit ball at another kid, then ducks to make it look like he’s completely innocent, and when confronted and asked if he did it in the first place, he responds, “Who? Me? I don’t know what you’re talking about. I was just standing here.” Yes, you were standing there, but there is much more to what you’ve done than what you would like others to realize, and now that you’ve been discovered and confronted about it, you claim innocence because you’re a “good Berean telling other Christians to be discerning and good Bereans themselves.”
Well, there is a VERY BIG DIFFERENCE between the first century Bereans and what the Berean Call and the Alliance for Biblical Integrity are doing. Bereans sought to know the truth and looked into Scriptural matters to verify for themselves if things were so; they did not go about spending most of their time seeking heresy in other Christian ministries as McMahon and James are doing. BIG DIFFERENCE. To apply this to what these people and a number of other so-called self-appointed “discernment ministries” are doing is nothing short than a scandal itself, and unbiblical in itself.
Now, let’s look at what these people have done, and how now they’re crying foul for getting hit back. If you’re a phony, you let it go, it doesn’t matter because you ride the cash cow while the going is good; but if you’re fighting for the truth and your good name, you hit back against a bully who seeks to destroy both. You hit back very hard so that your opponent never victimizes anyone again, because if you don’t, that bully will destroy you and your good name, and spread his own lies to an unsuspecting public, as well as continue victimizing others whom it will target.
You do this through the courts, through litigation, when you’ve exhausted every other means to bring the controversy to an amicable end where all parties have reached a consensus that is agreeable to all. Unfortunately, because there are no Apostles and true church authority in existence today to arbitrate matters between Christians, there is no other recourse but through the civil court system to litigate matters and seek their resolution.
Nicki says:
Hi Dave James. I mean absolutely no disrespect in my comment, so plz know that. I just have a few issues w the reply to Lou. Who of us can say this isn’t real? And who decides when we mishandling scripture?
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Nicki; Your question in its simplicity cannot reach the convoluted minds that have turned on this book. This is what Paul the Apostle writes of people who have become futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, which is the end of all foolish and misguided human enterprises and behavior. (Romans 1: 22) In the current case, it is of men who try to take the role of God where the Holy Spirit is the One who instructs and corrects, and enlightens the diligent student of God’s Word. Every time men do this, it comes back to hit them in the face.
There is a legitimate role and purpose in exposing false doctrine and error in cults and other aberrant religious orders, religions, and institutions, but there is no place in the body of Christ for one Christian to destroy another and claim that in the process they are contending for the faith. You don’t uphold the faith by destroying the faith of another. Isaiah 9:10 is a prophecy that was quoted on two separate occasions by two different people – senators; one a vice presidential candidate and the other the senate majority leader – directly tying this prophecy to the tragic events of September 11th, 2001, in our nation’s capital.
In the aftermath of the destruction visited upon Israel by the first Assyrian invasion, the leaders and the people defiantly vowed:
“The bricks have fallen down,
But we will rebuild with smooth stones;
The sycamores have been cut down,
But we will replace them with cedars.”
(Isaiah 9:10)
The prophecy itself deals with the northern kingdom of Israel which had suffered the first invasion by the Assyrians in 732 B.C., and whose leaders made the vow you see above which Isaiah quotes and then uses to prophesy judgment upon that kingdom which came ten years later with the Assyrian invasion and the exile of the ten northern tribes. This is the context of the Scripture. The historical context of it. And this is affirmed by The Harbinger. Jonathan Cahn did not connect 9/11 to Isaiah 9:10, these two public servants did and so did a third, the president of the United States. This happened before Jonathan Cahn wrote The Harbinger. It is part of history, and it is indisputable.
The events that The Harbinger outlines happened. They were not organized or added to the fictional narrative in the story, they happened in real life. Jonathan Cahn had nothing to do with them, and they all happened independent of one another. What The Harbinger does is to bring them all to the fore and in the context of Isaiah 9:10, not replacing it. This is the fundamental flaw in David James’ book. I have tried to point this out to Mr. James for months, but he will not listen, he is not listening, and he has not listened. There is a biblical principle at play here. There comes a time, when after willfully resisting reproof and correction, a person succumbs to a type of cognitive dissonance. (Romans 1:22) The Scripture is very clear about this, where it says:
A man who hardens his neck after much reproof Will suddenly be broken beyond remedy.
(Proverbs 29:1)
Hi Nick,
Well, it’s simple – the question we always ask is: “What does the text say?” If it isn’t in the text, someone made it up.
This isn’t a matter of “well, that’s just your interpretation.” What does the text say?
So, all anyone has to do is read my book and then ask that question to find out which of us are being true to Scripture.
It’s really not that difficult. If someone has only read The Harbinger, then they have only heard one side of the story – but Proverbs reminds us that the first to present his case seems right until his brother comes to examine him.
All I ask is that people exercise the wisdom and discernment to make sure they see the whole picture. If they fail to do that, deception is almost inevitable.
Dave
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: I would tell people to first read The Harbinger, then watch The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment, and obtain copies of all of the messages related to The Harbinger that Pastor and Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn has given over the years, and study this thoroughly with God’s Word. Make sure that you fully understand all of the details before you read Mr. James’ book, because he did not consult any of these, nor did he seek out Jonathan Cahn to verify everything he possibly could before he wrote his book, but he was quick to write his book as soon as T.A. McMahon approached him with an offer to publicize it, and after that, they were committed, and have been committed since to defame, slander, marginalize, and delegitimize the ministry, the man, and the book they have targeted for attack.
THIS IS NOT HOW THE SCRIPTURES TEACH CHRISTIANS RESOLVE DOCTRINAL DIFFERENCES AMONG THEMSELVES. CHRIST IS NOT GLORIFIED BY THIS, AND THERE IS NO WORTH IN CONTINUING TO PURSUE THIS ANY FURTHER, BUT MR. JAMES AND THE OTHERS ARE TOO COMMITTED, HAVE INVESTED TOO MUCH TIME AND TROUBLE AND NOW THEY CAN’T BACK DOWN.
I am at work on an expose that addresses all of the error, inconsistencies, and false charges made by Mr. James’ book, Lord willing will be making it available to the public. I will not do to Mr. James what he has done to Jonathan Cahn, nor will I do quote indiscriminately large portions of his book without his permission, as he has done. My book’s cover will not resemble his book’s cover, and I will not bring Mr. James’ bona fides into question because of a difference of opinion over doctrinal questions of Eschatology. Mr. James is correct, he believes that his case which he has presented seems right, as it does to him and to others allied with him, but according to God’s measure of grace as He has given me as His servant, I have examined Mr. James’ claims and have found them lacking and inaccurate. In due time, all of this will be properly addressed. I would have preferred to do this the biblical way, by bringing the matter directly to Mr. James, and I have attempted to do so, but he has made Jonathan Cahn a public target of his, and I must address his false witness in public to lay this thing to rest once and for all, according to God’s will in this matter.
Rick Frueh says:
The elevation of America to a divine idol knows no bounds. However it does arouse the interest of a carnal church and more importantly it raises money to support the lavish lifestyles of many preachers.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: The Harbinger has nothing to do with what you have written here Rick. It is a call to repentance to God’s people in America and a call to a fallen nation to seek the God of the Bible and seek Christ for salvation for each individual. Mr. James doesn’t see it and neither do the other critics of The Harbinger. If seeking to save a nation or the nations for Christ were idolatry, then the Great Commission given to every follower of Christ would be an act of idolatry. I’m afraid this argument against a call to a nation to repent is misplaced and misapplied, and biblically incorrect. Jonah would then be practicing a form of idolatry, when God called him to preach His warning to the people of Nineveh. God does not break His own commandment, and Scripture cannot be broken.
Chris B. says:
2 Corinthians 11:14 …And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Thank the Lord for ministries of discernment. Without them many more believers would be lead astray. It is to each of us His sheep to be responsible to hold to the Holy Scriptures truth. We should be relying on the Holy Spirits guidance in all things, at all times… Concerning getting permission from others before spiritually critiguing their works…? We then are all guilty for using Gods Words to benefit our stance, or opinion. I hope God knows about the Fair Use Law…
Thank the Lord for ministries of discernment. Without them many more believers would be lead astray. It is to each of us His sheep to be responsible to hold to the Holy Scriptures truth. We should be relying on the Holy Spirits guidance in all things, at all times… Concerning getting permission from others before spiritually critiguing their works…? We then are all guilty for using Gods Words to benefit our stance, or opinion. I hope God knows about the Fair Use Law…
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Well Chris, I will tell you that in order to quote from any of the various versions of the Bible we have in the English language, one must first week approval of the publishing house before we make copious use of its contents. Even in matters of human interaction, does it make sense to use someone else’s property without having first sought their permission? Even more so, you wouldn’t enter a man’s house and help yourself to his refrigerator unless you’ve obtained permission from him to do so, or are related in some way to the host and have free access to his refrigerator, or have been given of his refrigerator that which you are about use with his permission. Now this makes sense to anyone, whey then won’t it make sense to Mr. James? Mr. James knew full well in his heart why he didn’t first seek permission to make good use of material he “borrowed” from The Harbinger, and so does God, all arguments by Mr. James to the contrary aside. The Lord, who sees into the hearts and knows what motivates men to do what they do, knows exactly what David James felt and what motivated his heart when he did what he did and why and how he did it. This is the justice of the Lord, because it will be disclosed. Mr. James believes that this is a great opportunity to give his book publicity and exposure it needs to sell and make money, but I would not want this type of exposure even for the world’s goods. What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul?” ( ) A person can be so embroiled in something that it trumps even their calling and service to Christ. This is a dangerous place to be in one’s walk, and I wouldn’t want to be there.
Bradley Shaw says:
Thank you for being willing to use the text of the book you are evaluating, in order to accurately address the issues so that those who read your book can actually understand the issues you address. Really, it would not make much sense if you were not willing to thoroughly do that, and those who pretend that anyone could critique another’s writing without acuratey and completely quoting the text seem to be manipulating you. If you don’t adequatly quote the texts, then they will disquality your assessments. It seems straight forward and their complaints that they have cause me to question their motive. I am sure they want their book’s perspective promoted, but they really need to humbly be open to consider others when correction might be needed. Maybe there ARE theological problems with the book, and they might just be blessed by listeneing!
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Bradley, have you read The Harbinger for yourself? Have you viewed the documentary The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment? Have you ever attended a single one of the topical messages which form the basis of what The Harbinger says? Instead of questioning their motives, as you write; instead try to open your eyes and see what has happened here. Over the span of several months, indeed almost a year now, various radio and Internet ministries have banded together, with The Berean Call’s T.A. McMahon and David James having begun the process; have conducted the most horrendous pubic outing of a legitimate servant of God I have ever witnessed in my life time, and I am almost 56 years old, with almost thirty-seven of these years in Christ. What they have done is nothing short of a scandal itself. Do your due diligence and examine everything before you continue to be pulled in by these people. Those who have eyes, let them see and let them understand.
Andrea says:
Book fallss within fair use. Nobody needs to apologize to anyone. In the United States this is called “the right to free speech” and in God’s kingdom it is called “discernment”
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Andrea, no it does not. Don’t be taken in by clever arguments by a man who makes his living by writing against other people. Think this clearly through; don’t justify what these men have done to a fellow Christian, to turn his work against him by misquoting it and doing it without his permission! This speaks for itself. David James and other critics of The Harbinger should have used the proper Christian method; the biblical method used by Priscilla and Aquila with Apollos. I cite it here, because this is the Scriptural manner in which doctrinal differences and corrections are made among and between Christian brethren. It is found in the Scriptures, in Luke’s Book of Acts:
Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John; and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace, for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.
(Acts 18:34-38)
Please take note here, that when Priscilla and Aquila had heard Apollos, they did not berate him in public, nor did they reprove and correct him there in the synagogue in front of the others with whom Apollos had been sharing his incomplete version of the Gospel; but, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. (Acts 18:26) And rather than quench the man’s spirit by bringing into question what he had said, perhaps even by way of personal testimony before the congregation, they instead after “explaining to him the way of God more accurately,” (Acts 18:26) they and the Christians with whom Priscilla and Aquila gathered – the brethren, they are called - encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. (Acts 18:27)
This is the Scriptural manner in which doctrinal differences, or differences as in the sharing of understanding and aspects of God’s Word one party may be unaware of and another party privy to. Here is an example how things are done right, and the fruit of what they produce when it’s done right. What does the Scriptural testimony say it ended? In the following manner, and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace, for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah. (Acts 18:28) Such is the result of when something is done right and the fruit it produces in others.
This is the work of the Holy Spirit. First, it does what the Holy Spirit always does; bears witness of Christ (John 16:14), second; convicts the world of sin (John 16:8), third; brings people to faith in Christ for redemption (John 6:44, 65), and unlocks the teachings of the Bible (John 14:26, 16:13-15) which are a mystery to the unsaved because to them the Bible is nothing but a closed book that cannot be understood by the unregenerate mind, because its truths are spiritually discerned. (1Corinthians 2)
One Christian blogger had made the following observation about the behavior, actions, and public statements put out by the Berean Call, the Alliance for Biblical Integrity, and Worldview Weekend and others in their attacks:
“Discernment ministries usually work to identify serious failures of Christian doctrine, such as a denial of the Deity of Christ, which is the essential problem with denial of the Trinity; or advocacy of extrabiblical revelation (anything that is taken as authoritative outside the Bible, such as the traditions of Catholicism or the Book of Mormon), prophecies that contradict scripture, imputation of works of the flesh or the devil to the Holy Spirit and vice versa.
So it's rather strange to see these ministries going after Jonathan Cahn's Harbinger with such zeal, considering that they can't identify any such violations of the orthodox faith without indulging in tortuous reasoning.”
(Faith’s Corner, How the deck is stacked against The Harbinger --updated Tuesday, August 21, 2012)
Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John; and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace, for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.
(Acts 18:34-38)
Please take note here, that when Priscilla and Aquila had heard Apollos, they did not berate him in public, nor did they reprove and correct him there in the synagogue in front of the others with whom Apollos had been sharing his incomplete version of the Gospel; but, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. (Acts 18:26) And rather than quench the man’s spirit by bringing into question what he had said, perhaps even by way of personal testimony before the congregation, they instead after “explaining to him the way of God more accurately,” (Acts 18:26) they and the Christians with whom Priscilla and Aquila gathered – the brethren, they are called - encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. (Acts 18:27)
This is the Scriptural manner in which doctrinal differences, or differences as in the sharing of understanding and aspects of God’s Word one party may be unaware of and another party privy to. Here is an example how things are done right, and the fruit of what they produce when it’s done right. What does the Scriptural testimony say it ended? In the following manner, and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace, for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah. (Acts 18:28) Such is the result of when something is done right and the fruit it produces in others.
This is the work of the Holy Spirit. First, it does what the Holy Spirit always does; bears witness of Christ (John 16:14), second; convicts the world of sin (John 16:8), third; brings people to faith in Christ for redemption (John 6:44, 65), and unlocks the teachings of the Bible (John 14:26, 16:13-15) which are a mystery to the unsaved because to them the Bible is nothing but a closed book that cannot be understood by the unregenerate mind, because its truths are spiritually discerned. (1Corinthians 2)
One Christian blogger had made the following observation about the behavior, actions, and public statements put out by the Berean Call, the Alliance for Biblical Integrity, and Worldview Weekend and others in their attacks:
“Discernment ministries usually work to identify serious failures of Christian doctrine, such as a denial of the Deity of Christ, which is the essential problem with denial of the Trinity; or advocacy of extrabiblical revelation (anything that is taken as authoritative outside the Bible, such as the traditions of Catholicism or the Book of Mormon), prophecies that contradict scripture, imputation of works of the flesh or the devil to the Holy Spirit and vice versa.
So it's rather strange to see these ministries going after Jonathan Cahn's Harbinger with such zeal, considering that they can't identify any such violations of the orthodox faith without indulging in tortuous reasoning.”
(Faith’s Corner, How the deck is stacked against The Harbinger --updated Tuesday, August 21, 2012)
NJA says:
No disrespect meant, however, as a consumer if I were to go purchase the Harbinger and I were to see the cover of the book you printed The Harbinger fact or fiction and looking at your cover, I would easily be misled into thinking that was the actual book The Harbinger I was purchasing. You I”m sure have made money riding on the coattails of The Harbinger.
There are copyright laws for a reason. You cannot make money off someone else’s work
There are copyright laws for a reason. You cannot make money off someone else’s work
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Say it like it is NJA, say it like it is, and shout it from the mountain top. If it quacks like a duck, has a beak like a duck, and webbed feet like a duck, and walks like a duck, even swims like a duck; then it must be a duck. Go to The Pepster’s Post: A Voice in Cyberspace, in a post titled The Harbinger’s Critics Toss Filthy Rags for Public Sympathy, and see for yourselves the covers of these books. A picture tells a thousand stories. It’s a duck!
sage_brush says:
I am grateful to you for the tremendous effort you are making to stand for Sola Scriptura. As a long time ladies Bible teacher, I have found that even those belonging to the most conservative, doctrinally sound churches, are succumbing to what is Romanism at its very essence. Ecumenism is behind the failure of so many to discern the truth. These ideas can only be arrived at by not taking the Word literally.
At least once a week I encounter someone who believes the United States must somehow play an important part in the end times. When I reply that this country is not mentioned in either Daniel or the Revelation of Christ, the response is – “Well, it didn’t exist then.” ???? When I say that over half of them are thinking this way I am not kidding. If they would rather read “books” written by frail human beings, instead of the Word of God, written by the Holy Spirit – the natural result is a corruption. We must ask – why do the sheeple even need or want to read a book like “Harbinger” in the first place? Isn’t Jesus Christ and His perfect Word enough?
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: My dear lady, I don’t know what to say, but to agree with you with regards to the Holy Scriptures. But be careful about what you think you know about God’s Word, and don’t think that because in your estimation you are above those of whom you write about here, that you might not be lacking as well. We all – that means every one of us – see in a mirror dimly, and we see and know in part, the perfect has not come yet, and we do not know entirely yet – but some would like us to believe that, and therefore according to them, the cessation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit for God’s service, even in the face of prophetic Scripture which speak differently! Be very, very careful what you imply here. There are a good many people knowledgeable in the Scriptures, also teachers of the Word and pastors, and even scholars like Dr. Michael Brown and others, whom have read The Harbinger and have a very different opinion than Mr. James’ because they unlike him; are not Cessationists.
Alf says:
Dave, keeping you in prayer. I know some good friends love Cahn’s book but I totally agree with what you say. It really boils down to hermeneutics and it is VERY important.
In Him
Alf
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Didn’t I see you on TV once? Oh well, all kidding aside. I’m sorry Alf, you are wrong. It’s not hermeneutics, though Mr. James would like us to think it is. It is the manipulation and redefinition of The Harbinger’s narrative, as David James cleverly ascribes meanings to words and phrases that are germane to the story and part of the facts which David James objects to as he works to replace the narrative with a different one that does not support the premise of the story. He does this while hiding behind the mantle of biblical integrity in order to accomplish the deception of perceived error he’s trying to make.
Holly Garcia says:
We are supporting you in prayer.
Evidently “Rabbi Cahn” and Strang need to read I Cor 6 and Matt 5:39-48, or maybe if he truly feels he has been wronged, then re-read Mark 17:3, Matt 18:15. This seems more like a case of direct disobedience to the Word. It reminds me of what we expect in the end, brother delivering up brother to death…Shame on them, as I Cor 6 says, to their SHAME.
We are also making this public. I’d like to ask Jan Markell of Olive tree ministries, who told me in an email that his movie had “changed her life”, if she’d like to revisit that.
I’d like to remind Cahn and Strang also of 2 Thess 1 regarding those who trouble the bride of Christ.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Holly, it is obvious that you have bought into the false belief that 1Corinthians 6 precludes law suits among Christians. I would suggest that you make a careful study of this Scripture and after you have reexamined it thoroughly, then take up the discussion on it. There is no Apostolic Council in existence today to bring our matters before, inasmuch as the office of Apostle ended with the last eye witness to Jesus Christ’s resurrection having passed from the scene almost two thousand years ago.
Since there is no central Christian institution to which one must repair in case of disputes such as these, there is no recourse but to take those disputes and litigate them properly in a civil court of law. What’s more, it was not Jonathan Cahn who drew first blood in this war, it was T.A. McMahon and David James whom he commissioned with the writing of his book, and the incessant and relentless campaign these two men and others have staged for almost a year against Pastor and Messianic Rabbi Jonathan Cahn. I know Jonathan Cahn, and have known him for over ten years. None of The Harbinger’s critics know him, or a thing about him. Nor have they had the benefit of having sat on the various messages he gave upon which The Harbinger is based.
When David James wrote his book, he had no knowledge of these, nor did he go out of his way to consult and verify with Rabbi Cahn the matter of his objections to some of what he wrote in his book. But this did not stop Mr. James from writing his own book against The Harbinger, and obsess over this book for almost a year now. OPEN YOUR EYES, SEE THIS FOR WHAT IT IS; IT IS THE RELENTLESS PURSUIT OF ANOTHER BROTHER IN CHRIST, NOT A CULT LEADER, NOT A FALSE TEACHER FROM A FALSE RELIGIOUS ORDER, BUT A BROTHER IN CHRIST BEING OUTED AND DRAGGED BEFORE THE PUBLIC WITHOUT DUE RECOURSE OR ENUMERATION. THIS IS NOT THE BIBLICAL WAY OF DOING THIS. IT IS NOT. THIS IS NOT MATTHEW 5:39-48 WHICH YOU CITE ABOVE IN PRACTICE, BECAUSE FOR ALMOST A YEAR NOW, THESE MEN HAVE TREATED JONATHAN CAHN WITH CONTEMPT AND WORSE THAN AN UNBELIEVER.
And it is a sign of the times we live in, and the fact that genuine and legitimate born again believers like yourself can be fooled by these people is evidence that we are in it. It isn’t your fault, you’re convinced up until now that David James is correct. Perhaps you’re taken with other article he has written, perhaps you are a reader of material from the Berean Call, or have listened to one of the other critics of The Harbinger, and without having read the book for yourself, you’ve believed the lies and misinformation about the book. Dear sister, I tell you as a witness to these teachings, everything this man says here and in his book incorrect. He has convinced himself and a good many other people that he is right, but that is no indication that he is. Read The Harbinger for yourself, get the documentary The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment, go to the Hope of the World web site, and try to obtain the teaching CDs or DVDs that Rabbi Cahn taught on this before he committed it to writing in his book The Harbinger. You will understanding what I mean, and be thankful that I told you so.
Holly Garcia says:
So since you can’t find much on Jonathan Cahn’s first page except for things for sale and his page might better be named, “All about Jonathan”, I did find a link on salvation. Here is what I did not find on his “salvation” page.
No mention of the Cross
No mention of the Crucifixion or Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
No mention of His Resurrection
Searched for these words, which were not to be found in his “salvation message”: Die, died, dying. He does speaks of him overcoming death, but that is it.
No mention of the Crucifixion or Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
No mention of His Resurrection
Searched for these words, which were not to be found in his “salvation message”: Die, died, dying. He does speaks of him overcoming death, but that is it.
See if you can find direct Scripture references. Is it the gospel that saves? Man’s words?
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: I don’t know dear lady if you will understand this, and it is with great difficulty that others like David James will understand it as well. Because Hope of the World is trying to reach the ENTIRE world for Christ, and this means NOT JUST GENTILES from all nations, but JEWS FROM ALL NATIONS; there are phrases and words which the Jewish Non-Christians – that is, Jews who have not yet recognized and accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Messiah and Savior – well, there are the vast majority of Jews who find certain words offensive, because they do not know – just as you and David James were unaware of this what I am telling you here – they find such words offensive because the cross has been at the start of processions leading to pogroms in which Jewish lives have been put to death and Jewish homes have been ransacked by crazed mobs in the name of “Christ” and for “Jesus Christ” for centuries.
This has develop an acute misunderstanding as to the Person of Jesus Christ and an aversion to the name. It is because we are to be sensitive when speaking to such people that such language as “the Roman Cross” is used, “Messiah” is used, “Yeshua” is used, and others. What you and David James find missing, is there in plain sight, only your own lack of understanding these things – NOT YOUR FAULT – has made you see things not as they are. This is what Paul the Apostle meant when he wrote that to the Jew, I became a Jew, being all things to all men so that at least he may win some for Christ. (1Corinthians 9:20)
Again, this is only one part of the point I am trying to make here, which David James is missing from page one to the end of his book. This is why I caution people that they DO NOT and I repeat, THEY DO NOT know what they are criticizing in this book, and it has to do with a great deal of ignorance about a good many things than hermeneutics as well as assumptions made by Mr. James on incorrect or incomplete data that he is unaware of. Ignorance is not bliss. It can get people into a lot of trouble. Read The Harbinger, watch the DVD documentary, The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment, get all of the related messages, listen to them, study well, and then reassess what you think.
Marty says:
As far as fair use rights, it’s also your ‘right’ to have an abortion. But is it ethically and Biblically right to use someone else’s property for your financial gain? I’m sorrybut if this were about hermeneutics and Sola Scriptura why is it for sale? Why make money off the “coattails” of Cahn? Can anyone answer me that?
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Marty; it isn’t, and you discerned correctly; you hit the proverbial nail on its head. This is nothing more than a misguided campaign of defaming and marginalizing another person over a course of almost a year; alleging that what that person has written is not what it says. In the course of that time span, the attacks against this man – this brother in Christ – have been frequent, almost incessant, brutal, without mercy or grace with all manner of allegations against his teachings being flung carelessly into cyberspace, methods that in and of themselves would have been questioned by truly discerning Christians when they first appeared.
I saw it from its beginning and was so shocked by it that I wrote Mr. James and other critics of The Harbinger about this, but to no avail. He and others like him, had too much committed in this, and would not abate or retract anything. Even now, his self-justification for what he has done to Jonathan Cahn – he and others of his colleagues – and his belief that he is doing God a service by destroying a brother in Christ is the most astonishing and saddest of all discoveries I and others like Jan Markell, whom Holly mentions above have made about these people. It is so bad that long time relationships and friendships have suffered because T.A. McMahon has convinced them that the right thing to do would be to break the friendship over a disagreement on this topic.
Marty says:
One other thing, just because we have the “right to free speech” doesn’t mean we should use that right to offend our brother or sister in Christ. James, hopefully he did, should have sought out CAHN, present the arguments, seek leadership counsel from within the Church, and if no repentance from Cahn of his work then make the arguments public and free for the sake of hermeneutics. He’s still asking people if we bought his book! Why?
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: You’re partially correct when you write, just because we have the “right to free speech” doesn’t mean we should use that right to offend our brother or sister in Christ. James, hopefully he did, should have sought out CAHN, present the arguments, seek leadership counsel from within the Church, but when you write that if no repentance from Cahn of his work then make the arguments public and free for the sake of hermeneutics. He’s still asking people if we bought his book! Why? Why you ask? Because in order to review something the object of your review must first be examined thoroughly. If you haven’t done this, then any opinion you claim to have either for or against it, is invalid, and intellectually worthless. And as far as Rabbi Cahn seeking to repent , what is he going to seek to repent of? He hasn’t done anything here for which he needs to repent about. RABBI CAHN HAS NEVER SPOKEN AGAINST ANY OF THIS CRITICS, BUT THEY HAVE PURSUED HIM LIKE A PACK OF WILD ANIMALS. REPENTANCE OUGHT TO COME FROM THOSE WHOM HAVE DONE HIM DAMAGE AND SLANDERED HIM BY CALLING HIM EVERY VILE NAME THAT ONE CAN USE AGAINST ANOTHER IN A RELIGIOUS VENUE SUCH AS THIS ONE.
Rick Frueh says:
Things like this book are almost so fanciful that even moderately mature believers should reject it. However that is not the case and spiritual warfare these days is deep. I find it almost incedulous that Jan Markell, who views almost everything with suspicion, gives a somewhat tacit endorsement. That reveals how subtle but powerful nationalism is.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: This is because Jan Markell has the understanding of these things that the critics of The Harbinger lack. When I say understanding, I mean that which only the Holy Spirit imparts. We have evidence of intelligent and well educated religious men who, lacking the impartation of understanding and the knowledge of the Holy One, rejected the Giver of Eternal life and instead chose a murderer and insurrectionist in Our Lord’s place. I don’t know what you mean by “nationalism” but it has nothing to do with Jan Markell’s views. If you mean by this that because she is Jewish like Rabbi Cahn, she supports him, that is beneath a person who calls himself a follower of Christ, who Himself was Jewish, the Messiah, and it only shows prejudice and bigotry to even think and express oneself in this manner. It is Anti-Semitism, the root of much evil in this world. If this is what you mean, then you owe Ms. Markell and Rabbi Cahn an apology and an apology to everyone here. Bigotry, racism, or Anti-Semitism of any type has no place in the life of a born again Christian believer.
Marty,
This has been over a year-long process – and the only reason I suggested that you (or anyone) might want to read my book is so you would have a better understanding of the issues – including the process, which early on included correspondence with Jonathan Cahn and a 75-minute moderated on-air discussion as far back as April.
I have to admit I’m a bit puzzled at why you would come after me in this way armed with so little knowledge of the situation.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: David, I know about this situation as you call it. I’ve been writing you for months on this, and have been blogging for months on this, as well as writing my book on it for months. But allow me to ask you a question. What about what happened after this year long process? You weren’t just breathing air David. You know what you and others have been up to since then. And you know how you used your interview against Jonathan Cahn in your book. This really shows more about you and your friends than anything else you claim here. You also know that at least twice you disregarded Rabbi Cahn’s efforts to contact you, and that you even resisted all efforts even by others to resolve the differences, perhaps because by then you had committed too much time and effort and wanted no more discussions on the matter. Only you and God know the real deal here James. I am sorry, but after reading what you have written here, and my months of personal correspondence with you, and your reaction to all who try to tell you that what you and your associates have done is pure evil, and your self-justified manner in all of this; I cannot believe a word you say. You have lost all credibility with me. I do not believe you.
You’re comparing my fair use with abortion? Wow.
The only reason it’s for sale is because it takes money to print – and to live and pay the bills while you’re writing and doing ministry.
I suppose the same question could be asked of Jonathan Cahn, but that wouldn’t be any more fair than it is here.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Wow is right, and you’ve written an entire book full of errors and assumptions of things you have little or no knowledge of, based upon a biased reading and impression you got when you read The Harbinger, two or three times, and connected certain words used in it, and metaphors to theological objections stemming from your own personal Cessationist world view. YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE PRINTED THIS HORRENDOUS SCREED IN THE FIRST PLACE. YOUR ENTIRE APPROACH TO THE MATTER IS UNBIBLICAL. YOUR TREATMENT OF THIS MAN IS UN-CHRISTIAN. YOUR BEHAVIOR IN THIS ENTIRE AFFAIR, JUDGING BY YOUR OWN CONTINUAL OBSSESSIVE WRITING ABOUT IT, IS UNNECESSARY AND TROUBLING. He didn’t’ write his book in attack of someone else’s or to ride its coattails as you have done. You can deny this until Christ returns, but you will not get away with this. The Lord knows the hearts, and He has seen yours. Just your continual compulsive obsessive behavior in this is evidence that you either are willfully doing this, or you are you so self-deceived that you actually believe your own deception and there is no convincing you. Only the Lord knows for sure, but your reaction to getting hit back for hitting someone speaks for itself. This is perhaps the first time anyone has ever challenged – as they should – you and made you account for what you have done against another.
There was no intent to mislead or make money off someone else. But the fact is, we did change the cover and without a fuss, even though we disagree with the accusation.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: But of course you would and do. You can’t even admit when you’re wrong can you? And I perceive that you do not like people pointing things out to you, because you are above them, aren’t you. This is why you’ve created an organization around yourself named “the Alliance for Biblical Integrity.” Talk about ivory towers and those who live in them! Everything about this entire approach of a group of Christians setting themselves above others and rather than quietly seeking to resolve matters of doctrinal issues and differences among themselves with other Christians, instead they go in pubic and out these and destroy their reputation and ministries – why the whole thing is nothing more than the greatest deception I have ever witnessed in my thirty-seven years in Christ.
The approach that is being taken by The Berean Call and by similar so-called self-appointed “discernment ministries” is not biblical at all. One Christian does not drag another Christian before the bar of public opinion to shame them and slander their good name on the basis that they’re doing a service for God. There is a great difference between exposing a cult and its leader to dragging a fellow brother in Christ to do damage to that brother in the name of the Savior whom both call upon for their salvation. This is contemptible.
This is what these people have done and without remorse and without repentance. In fact they have stiffened their necks and have crystalized their attacks after being brought to task by other ministries for their practice and behavior. One article called it “blood sport,” but the Berean Call, the Alliance for Biblical Integrity, and their satellites on the Internet with whom they join in writing hit piece after hit piece against other Christians such as James Dobson, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Pat Boone, and others; have reacted in typically defiant unchristian behavior. At the very least, they could’ve presented a public apology to the people and ministries they have damage, but they have not. There is no humility, there is no grace, or love in these people. This is not the love of Christ displayed.
This is what these people have done and without remorse and without repentance. In fact they have stiffened their necks and have crystalized their attacks after being brought to task by other ministries for their practice and behavior. One article called it “blood sport,” but the Berean Call, the Alliance for Biblical Integrity, and their satellites on the Internet with whom they join in writing hit piece after hit piece against other Christians such as James Dobson, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Pat Boone, and others; have reacted in typically defiant unchristian behavior. At the very least, they could’ve presented a public apology to the people and ministries they have damage, but they have not. There is no humility, there is no grace, or love in these people. This is not the love of Christ displayed.
Thanks, Bradley. You’re right – I intentionally only quoted what was necessary to demonstrate that I was fairly representing The Harbinger. If I hadn’t done this I would no doubt have been charged with wildly taking things out of context.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: You’ve done a lot more than that David. And even if you had just done that, but to do it without the other person’s permission, and to copy the cover of their work as you did, and to run an ceaseless campaign of discreditation and marginalization against another person, thinking that you are doing God a service; is contemptible. It glorifies nothing but your own ego and your pocket book. Remember what the Scripture warns in this respect:
Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before stumbling.
(Proverbs 16:18)
Holly Garcia says:
Marty, Biblically speaking, we do not need to go seek them out and present our arguments once these things have been made public, and “free for the sake of hermeneutics”? I don’t think it takes much in interpretative ability to see that Cahn is setting himself up as a prophet, therefore is a false prophet. The method he uses to get that message out thoroughly has no shame, nor is forbidden in Scripture.
By the way, since all we do, everything, is to be done unto the Lord, I sure hope you are not making money doing anything. Otherwise you would not be doing everything unto Him.
This is not the gospel we are talking about that is being “charged for”, so with the same admonition you began your post above with regarding not offending your brother or sister in Christ, here you are in public making Biblically unfounded accusations…. Shame on you. Is there possibly a beam you need to notice?
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: I rest my case. Who are “we” Holly? Do you work for Mr. James? Or for one of his associates? Are you speaking for them? And no, you’re not Biblically speaking, your giving your opinion, as is Mr. James. You are completely wrong here. Do you know Jonathan Cahn? I know Jonathan Cahn and have known him personally for over ten years. Let me tell you dear lady, he has never claimed to be a prophet, nor is he claiming to be a prophet now. For you to accuse him of this and to call him a false prophet is the fruit that has fallen straight from David James’ garden.
Here we have another one of David James sympathizers calling Rabbi Cahn a false prophet, and claiming the case of hermeneutics has nothing to do with this. It is used by David James and his colleagues to justify an unsound and unbiblical behavior on their part and their unscrupulous methods against a brother in Christ for the past eleven months.
The only biblically unfounded accusations are the ones being hurled by you and others who harbor only ill will towards Jonathan Cahn and who besmirch his calling and his good name. This is a disgrace, it is un-Christ-like, and it is uncalled for. David James is playing it up, and allowing it to go unanswered and unchallenged because it serves his purpose; to defame and marginalize Jonathan Cahn and to bring his ministry and calling in Christ into question; otherwise, he would have stopped it right away. Again, let those who have eyes to see, see for themselves the obvious evidence before them.
Alf says:
I finally ordered your book, David. In the beginning it was just a matter of Cahn’s taking an OT verse way out of context for me. Digging a little deeper, I see other problem areas. It’s sad to see 2 major ministries lacking some discernment in the matter when there are so many red flags raised by so many other ministries.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Alf, from the onset it is obvious that you have been taken in by David James’ arguments and those of his associates. Go to The Pepster’s Post: A Voice in Cyberspace, to Faith’s Corner; read The Harbinger for yourself, view the documentary The Isaiah 9:10 Judgment, try to obtain the several messages which Rabbi Cahn gave before he wrote the book, and study, study, study. Pray most of all that the Holy Spirit of Truth will enlighten your understanding. I am confident that when you have done all of the above, you will understand and see where specifically David James has gotten it all wrong.
It is most grievous for me to sit here and know this and know the specifics and know why, and not be able to give to you what I know about this myself. This is why I am writing a book that will do this, and if the Lord wills, will publish soon, because the material is voluminous. It requires a book of its own. I wish I did not have to do this, but the inaccuracies and lies that have proliferated against this good man and servant of God whom I have known and served the Lord with for years must be answered and this brought to an end.
This is not glorifying Christ and we see here and elsewhere what it has done to people’s emotions already. It is a very unfortunate affair that could have been spared had Mr. James and T.A. McMahon walked in the love of Christ and in the grace of God themselves and knew the biblical method Christians should use in conflict resolution on matters of doctrinal and policy matters. They did not, or if they did, they did not employ it , but instead pulled out all of the stops on getting the current campaign against Rabbi Cahn started and have run it since.
Marty says:
OK Holly, bit puzzled by your response. My point is clear, you find something wrong with Cahn’s work? Great! Tell the world. Shout it from the rooftops. Make it known! So tell me again, why’d James sell it??? Let’s be realistic. These were both – Cahn and James – commercial ventures. Nothing wrong with that – I never said it’s wrong once. But if we’re pasting it as if the existence of Christianity and America depended on who’s right and whose wrong, as these gents are making it out to be, then why the commercial venture to begin with? Might as well start selling tickets to Sunday services or evangelical crusades.
And What “Biblically unfounded” accusations have I made? Please be specific. I opened my statement with a simple ‘question, if not, then’ statement. Please read carefully.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Marty, to these people any disagreement with their point of view is “Biblically unfounded” response. This is a well-used defense to hide behind when all else fails. This has been used by these people from the onset. And in case Holly or David James thinks that this is what I have been using here, and elsewhere, let me remind everyone that it was David James who first initiated an attack on Jonathan Cahn and his work and not the other way around. Were I hiding behind a claim to be Biblically speaking, I would not have taken the time or made the effort to write as I do. I write as I do because a grievous sin has been committed against a friend of mine and against his ministry. I cannot stand by and leave it unanswered when I know the truth.
Holly Garcia says:
Marty, I felt my point was clear as well, so not sure why you were puzzled. I’ll try to clarify my response.
YOU SAID: “wouldn’t it seem right to have done that first or even invite Mr. Cahn to a private discussion to address the issues first – as Matt 18 teaches us to do”
I RESPONDED” Biblically speaking, we do not need to go seek them out and present our arguments once these things have been made public,
YOU SAID: “free for the sake of hermeneutics”?
MY RESPONSE: The method he uses to get that message out thoroughly has no shame, nor is forbidden in Scripture. (We do see Paul saying he does not charge for the gospel, but this is not the same)
And… since all we do is unto the Lord, charging for anything would be somehow forbidden in your thought process.
BIBLICALLY UNFOUNDED:
1. Suggesting Cahn is a brother that needs to be addressed privately as per Matt 18. False prophecy is not dealt with that way, it is marked and avoided. The more that know the better.
2. Judge with a righteous judgment and not according the appearance. Whatever Dave’s motives for selling the book, you cannot know, and you are sinning to suggest you do or to imply that him selling it is somehow wrong.
3. Comparing his right to use the words to address false teaching in context next to the legal right to abortion is like bearing false witness to me. The first is Biblically morally correct, you suggest is not. The second may be legal, but it is not morally correct.
4. Your questions were not questions. When you pad questions with insinuations, they become accusation. Here are some examples:
a. that they did wrong in not privately dealing with Cahn and somehow it should have been the Matt. 18 method.
b. that their speech was unsound, i.e., “dragging his name through the mud”
c. You continue to insinuate that he hasn’t shouted it from the rooftop and made it known and again you bring up him selling this information as if it is somehow forbidden. Please do provide Chapter and verse if you will.
d. You say, “. I don’t know Cahn or even agree with his work, but I have to say, from a Berean point of view – You folks need to apologize to this man. ”
a. that they did wrong in not privately dealing with Cahn and somehow it should have been the Matt. 18 method.
b. that their speech was unsound, i.e., “dragging his name through the mud”
c. You continue to insinuate that he hasn’t shouted it from the rooftop and made it known and again you bring up him selling this information as if it is somehow forbidden. Please do provide Chapter and verse if you will.
d. You say, “. I don’t know Cahn or even agree with his work, but I have to say, from a Berean point of view – You folks need to apologize to this man. ”
Really? That was a question???? You don’t know him, agree with his work, but from a “Berean” point of view, they need to apologize to a false and lying prophet. Please do again give me chapter and verse on that.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Again I must ask Holly, what do you mean by “WE”? You mean those who support David James’ side in this debate? And no once again, you are not biblically speaking, you are positing your own opinion and ideas – as is David James – about a topic and a matter which neither you nor he has but the most cursory knowledge of. David James has read The Harbinger, but he has entirely misunderstood it, and he has taken this misunderstanding to new levels in his polemics against it. But let’s address each one of your statement above:
You wrote: Biblically speaking, we do not need to go seek them out and present our arguments once these things have been made public, YOU SAID: “free for the sake of hermeneutics”?
My reply: Yes you do. This would be the Scriptural method used when two parties are in disagreement over something. Of course, you always bring a witness along to record and verified what is discussed.
You wrote: The method he uses to get that message out thoroughly has no shame, nor is forbidden in Scripture.
My reply: Allow me to disagree with you Holly. The shame of this is that The Harbinger’s critics have tried to do everything within their power to marginalize, discredit, and completely destroy the work Jonathan Cahn has done for the Lord. I am sorry, but this is no way to serve Christ. And yes, it is proscribed in God’s Word. I have cited some of the Scripture already and have given biblical examples on the correct method that ought to be used between Christians with differing points of view regarding interpretation, but none of these have been used either by David James or by any of the other critics of The Harbinger.
You wrote: (We do see Paul saying he does not charge for the gospel, but this is not the same) And… since all we do is unto the Lord, charging for anything would be somehow forbidden in your thought process.
My reply: Thank you Holly. There is no wrong in one making their living from the Gospel, or in God’s service if what they do is their full-time occupation. Paul has written on this, where he says:
Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.
My defense to those who examine me is this: Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas? Or do only Barnabas and I not have a right to refrain from working? Who at any time serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat the fruit of it? Or who tends a flock and does not use the milk of the flock?
I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He? Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to thresh in hope of sharing the crops. If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ. Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar? So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel. (1Corinthians 9:1-14)
For this reason collections are taken during church services so that from what is collected, the proceeds from such collections can then be used accordingly in support of the ministry and its many functions. There is no wrong in making one’s living from service if that is what one’s full-time occupation is.
You wrote: 1. Suggesting Cahn is a brother that needs to be addressed privately as per Matt 18. False prophecy is not dealt with that way, it is marked and avoided. The more that know the better.
My reply: There is no false prophecy in The Harbinger. Have you read The Harbinger, seen the documentary based on it, or ever listened or viewed the topical series from which it is based? If not, then please refrain from calling this book “false prophecy.”
You wrote: 2. Judge with a righteous judgment and not according the appearance. Whatever Dave’s motives for selling the book, you cannot know, and you are sinning to suggest you do or to imply that him selling it is somehow wrong.
My reply: Who are you to judge the servant of another? You’re quick to judge Rabbi Cahn, but speak in defense of David James. Do you personally know David James or Jonathan Cahn? Then how can you write what you did above? And then imply that anyone who has an inch of brain matter and discernment as given to them by God, could perceive a person’s motive after months of evidence piling up one over another.
You wrote: 3. Comparing his right to use the words to address false teaching in context next to the legal right to abortion is like bearing false witness to me. The first is Biblically morally correct, you suggest is not. The second may be legal, but it is not morally correct.
My reply: It is not biblical and it is disingenuous to ask somebody to an interview and then use what is in that interview against them. It is unethical, it is dishonest, and it is un-Christian. It is unbiblical to out a brother in Christ before the general public with whom one has a doctrinal difference with.
You wrote: 4. Your questions were not questions. When you pad questions with insinuations, they become accusation. Here are some examples:
a. that they did wrong in not privately dealing with Cahn and somehow it should have been the Matt. 18 method.
a. that they did wrong in not privately dealing with Cahn and somehow it should have been the Matt. 18 method.
My reply: THEY DID. IT WAS WRONG AND UNBIBLICAL. THE METHODS USED WERE NOT IN ACCORDANCE TO SCRIPTURE. WE HAVE EXAMINED THIS ABOVE.
You wrote: b. that their speech was unsound, i.e., “dragging his name through the mud”My reply: MY DEAR LADY, THEIRS AND YOURS BY BRINGING INTO QUESTION RABBI CAHN’S CREDENTIALS, ASCRIBING TO HIM ALL MANNER OF FALSE ATTRIBUTES SUCH AS GNOSTIC, MYSTIC, KABBALIST, FALSE PROPHET, FALSE TEACHER, HERETIC, ETC… ALL OF THESE EPITHETS FLUNG AT HIM ARE THE EVIDENCE. YOU DON’T HAVE TO GO VERY FAR. YOUR OWN WRITING MAKES THIS MOST EVIDENT RIGHT HERE.
You wrote: c. You continue to insinuate that he hasn’t shouted it from the rooftop and made it known and again you bring up him selling this information as if it is somehow forbidden. Please do provide Chapter and verse if you will.My reply: ONLY YOU KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. I WON’T EVEN TRY TO DICIPHER WHAT YOU MEAN. PARDON ME.
You wrote: d. You say, “. I don’t know Cahn or even agree with his work, but I have to say, from a Berean point of view – You folks need to apologize to this man.”
Really? That was a question???? You don’t know him, agree with his work, but from a “Berean” point of view, they need to apologize to a false and lying prophet. Please do again give me chapter and verse on that.
My reply: WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN HERE IS A DISGRACE. YOU CALL THIS MAN OF GOD AND SERVANT OF JESUS CHRIST THE LORD A “FALSE AND LYING PROPHET! HOW DARE YOU! AND DAVID JAMES ALLOWS THIS TO BE POSTED SHOWS HIS ACQUIECANCE TO WHAT YOU, DEAR LADY; HAVE JUST UTTERED. A DISGRACE, AN UTTER DISGRACE. I am grieved and saddened by your words. They are not true, and if you knew the man, and knew what he teaches, you would not write this. I am so sorry for you. So sorry for you dear lady. I must stop for a moment from writing. Please excuse me for a moment.
Holly, I don’t know how new you are to this discussion, or to the entire controversy, but I have been following this since last year, and there is one site that I recommend you visit to get a blow by blow corrective rebuttal to David James’ objection and that is Faith’s Corner as well as The Pepster’s Post: A Voice in Cyberspace, Both of these sites and others like them, will provide for you a much needed counter-balance to what you’ve been exposed to already. You may have a change of mind and opinion when you’ve examined the content of both these sites, you may not; but at least you will have allowed yourself the benefit of seeing and other side of the story, as the late Paul Harvey used to say. Please sister, reconsider your words next time. Rabbi Cahn is a dedicated servant of the Most High God, and an ordained minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
(This is not to Holly specifically, but I needed to put it somewhere.)
Whatever we do folks, let’s make sure we stay on the high road with the discussion. We haven’t fallen off yet, which is why I’m still approving these – but let’s be careful.
I have no problem with topics – I’m only concerned about tone.
(This isn’t directed at anyone specifically – just a gentle reminder to all, including myself.)
Concerning selling the book: The truth needs to be put out there in as broad a forum as possible – and it takes money to both produce it and to try to pay the bills while writing it. Paul makes it clear that those who minister have a God-given right to live from their ministry.
Concerning Matt. 18: As soon as Cahn’s book was published, the matter was no longer a Matt. 18 issues (as Holly said). And, in fact I did write and speak with Cahn – and a 75-minute radio discussion can be found at http://www.prophecytoday.com and on the ABI website.
Concerning both of these: It’s probably better to start with questions that receive answers than to start with “questions” immediately followed by accusations. Just saying…
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Thank you David, but all claims aside and you did post Holly’s contemptible and unchristian vituperation above. Though I am glad that you have moderated the tone of this discussion at least afterwards, because we all should keep from letting this get the better of us. You understand, I know Pastor Cahn personally, and he is both my Rabbi and my friend. So, if I have seemed a little upset over certain aspects of this discussion, I am on a personal level, and I am on a biblical level. The biblical level trumps all others of course. J I do not disagree with the truth being put out there in a broad manner as possible, but the problem I have is that you did not exhaust every opportunity presented to you to examine EVERYTHING about The Harbinger message, nor did you seek Rabbi Cahn out to verify the facts from him; he sought you out on more than the one or two occasions you “interviewed” him on the phone and radio station. I also object with how you used the material of that interview in you book.
This indicates that you did not have him discuss these things with you in order to reach a consensus and resolution to the matter, because your mind was made up, because your mind was made up before the interview. Any discussion to resolve the matter was academic and proved fruitless. It was not your intention to resolve the issue, but to get more ammunition (as you saw it) for “target practice,” Jonathan Cahn being your target. You mention in your book that you interviewed Pastor Cahn – the interview moderated by Jimmy DeYoung (an avid critic of Rabbi Cahn and his book even without having read the book) April 12th, 2012 interview of which you write on the bottom of page 12 of your Preface to your book. We can suppose that this is the 75 minute interview you refer to above.
As to what Paul says about those who minister earning their living from their ministry. I think all Christians agree on this. Thank you for pointing this out as well. I believe that if this had been moderated and done correctly from the start, you would not have written your book, and none of this would’ve happened.
Holly Garcia says:
It’s hard to read tone I know Dave, and you can certainly choose whether you want to share this post, it may be off topic. I am very passionate about these things, but my desire is maintain sound speech that cannot be condemned. I do feel that rebuke with His Word is sound speech assuming we are doing it for the right reasons and led by His Spirit. I wish more would do it for the sake of the truth of His Word.
I will share something personal about why this affects me so much, yet that should not be our gauge as I know that you know. When my husband was sick, we had been going to a church that was growing, a Bible church that began to get larger. It was too difficult for him to make it in the crowd, and eventually with 8 kids, too much for me to do it all.
We did find a smaller church, and although my husband could get there much more easily, we quickly saw it wasn’t going to work right about the time we found out through the youth minister that the pastor was going to house “Christian Yoga”.
I went back to the bigger church, but just a Bible study, then joined a second. After seven years of serious illness, my husband finally passed away in Nov. of 2009. The elders had prayed for him, and he had formed a bond with the associate pastor. There was a new pastor, I had heard a couple of his sermons, and also another man, who is nationally known as a systematic theology scholar. I felt something was off with both, I couldn’t finish their sermons, but who on earth was I to say? I just knew I didn’t have a desire to attend the services. Over these years I was being taught “prove ALL things” (and that by His Word).
Finally months after my husband had died, a friend, raised an atheist wanted to go to church with me, so we went to a service there not knowing where else to go, in affluent areas, there is much contemplative, new age, emergent teaching.
I listened as the Music Minister first recommended people go buy a new book by Eugene Peterson. My heart sunk knowing what I do about “the Message”. The pastor began to tell a little story about “pastor” Paul Yonggi Cho. Knowing about him, I began to feel sick. Then he shared about his “favorite” devotional author Philip Yancey. Having done my proving on him the year before in a Bible study I began to also feel a lump in my throat. When he mentioned Brennan Manning, I began to weep. Here my friend had come to church for the first time and she was being fed poison. Where were the Scriptures? Fortunately my friend thought I was emotional about my husband and never asked.
I wrote a letter to the pastor, prayed and labored over it for a week. Backed up all my concerns with direct quotes of each person, and the Word to go with it. I went over it and over it, to be sure everything was correct to the best of my ability. I sent it to him, and he passed it over to the asst. pastor. Long story short, as we discussed this, for some reason I mentioned Rick Warren. That asst. pastor told me I had better not say anything about him because they were close friends. I asked him if he believed God was in everyone and everything. He snapped at me, “Of course not! That’s panentheism!” I gave him the page number where he could find it, and his comment was that he was not going to “blame him for one mistake”. I calmly said I would share more. He said he would not hear more.
I won’t even go into all the winds of doctrine that this pastor has gone into, Nouwen was a fad of his for awhile, then he became more reformed, and started with Calvin and Spurgeon and now he is a neo-Calvinist. I don’t know how much, just as it seems the Lord has revealed through other people since I do not attend. One of the bulletins was shown to me by someone at a Bible study. It had one eye, a circle, checkered floor, a triangle and an “I AM” statements for people to fill in about themselves.
This church was founded on land my dad helped get. It sprung from out of my childhood church, breaks my heart truly. Talking to the elders was not an option as many already had, and they were not interested in hearing. In fact another nationally known elder had promoted “the Message”. Many men I have run across feel sound speech is not calling a false prophet or teacher a “wolf” or even “false”. Seems like they want to call them brethren. Or the doctrine is “non-essential” where to me, it is a 2 John 1:9-11 moment.
When someone like Cahn and his publisher, promote Cahn’s teachings as being known for “their prophetic import and their revealing of the deep mysteries of God’s word”, and of the book as mysteries and secrets revealed that are “real”, I can only reflect on Jeremiah 23:33-40. Do these people like Jan Markell who told me that the movie had “changed her life”, really want to suggest this is a prophecy or an oracle?
I weep…and I pray more would take a firm stand rather than a wishy washy one. God bless you whether you decide to share or not, it will not upset me.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: I am sorry for your loss. As you discuss your travails with the insipid false doctrines that have crept into your church, I am reminded of our own journey down the road of God’s grace. I share here with you and others our own – that is, my wife’s and my own. I was saved the day I was introduced to the Lord Jesus Christ and received Him as my personal Savior and Lord on August 30th, 1976 at 5:30AM in the town of West New York, New Jersey, on 60th Street, near the corner of Hudson Avenue.
Sorry about all of the details; but one doesn’t forget these, nor the day of one’s salvation. It’s one of those things you kind of just remember, like your wedding day, the birth of a child, etc. Somehow without having read it anywhere, I knew when I finished praying my prayer of repentance and to receive the Lord, I would never be the same again for as long as I live.
Shortly after I got saved (about two months later), my then-future wife – Vivian – also prayed to receive the Lord Yeshua/Jesus as her personal Savior and Lord, because of the change she saw in me – not out and about on Saturday nights and weekends, I stopped using profanity, reading my Bible daily, praying, stopped smoking, etc… in other words a radical change in my behavior and demeanor had occurred which those who knew me before quickly were made aware of. Some of my old friends I shared Jesus with, others who couldn’t accept these changes and didn’t desire to accept the gift of salvation offered to them; left and I never saw them again.
It was during the early years of our faith that my wife and I got involved in what is known by many as Hyper-Pentecostalism, and the teachings of the Word of Faith/Name it and Claim It preachers such as Robert W. Schambach, Kenneth Hagen, Kenneth Copeland, Charles Capps, Ernest Angley, W.V. Grant Jr., Peter Popoff, Jimmy Swaggart, Eugene Scott, and the rest, though I didn’t really like many of these so-called “faith” preachers, and was not a follower of theirs like so many of my friends were at the time we were all caught up in the euphoria of these movements.
It took the Holy Spirit’s enlightenment, a sincere and searching heart that God sees into, and a careful study of God’s Word and a comparison of the teachings and pronouncements of these faith and prosperity teachers to the metric of the written Word and teachings of the Holy Scriptures to wean me and my wife out of the influence of these religious telemarketers’ influence and subtle mind control. God used the excesses of the so-called “Deliverance Ministry” to show me just how much in error these people were and continue to be right down to this day. That was more than thirty years ago. We’ve come a long, long, way by God’s grace since then.
But having come out of the most extreme expressions of Hyper-Pentecostalism – now I’m not referring to the legitimate ministries and gifts of the Holy Spirit, but the extreme almost cult-like environment we were in back then – that God took us out of and we’ve grown in the grace and knowledge of God’s Word since. Today, the churches out there are in worse shape than in the 70s and early 80s, and the New Age false teachings more prevalent, some of them masquerading in the faith and prosperity, name and claim gospel being preached by the religious telemarketers with big bucks, big cars and planes, and big houses and all sorts of riches of this world; you know the types, the ones who come out on TV and spend the better part of one hour for thousand dollar donations, telling everyone to plant a seed and they’ll get something from God in return. My heart breaks when I see such chicanery.
Holly Garcia says:
By the way, I do not know if you have been to this site (he has many), Hopeoftheworld.org
A friend pointed it out and the first message I saw was:
LITTLE MESSIAHS: THE CHAMPIONS!
Msg #1657
Its radical but you can live as a little Messiah and how to live the life of the champion.
Msg #1657
Its radical but you can live as a little Messiah and how to live the life of the champion.
It was all I looked at, but another friend, Dave, who went to the site, wrote;
Note what Cahn says about Message Number 1370: “A fascinating mystery filled with revelation and new revelations.” New revelations? Sounds pretty heretical to me – I don’t know why various discernment ministries continue to endorse him.
Note what Cahn says about Message Number 1370: “A fascinating mystery filled with revelation and new revelations.” New revelations? Sounds pretty heretical to me – I don’t know why various discernment ministries continue to endorse him.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Yes, do you have any idea what the Apostle Paul in the Holy Spirit meant when he used the phrase “Christ in you, the hope of glory?” Or that we have the Holy Spirit of God? That we are sealed with the Spirit of the Living God unto the day of salvation? That the Spirit of God is given to us as a pledge of this salvation? Did you know that unless one has the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him? Don’t jump to conclusions that Rabbi Cahn is teaching that we are gods or any form of New Age Pantheism, he is not. If he were, my better half and I would not be there. In fact if Beth Israel were Pantheistic and New Age, Jonathan Cahn wouldn’t be there either.
Holly, after reading of your experience above, I understand your concerns. Like the popular saying goes; “Once burned, twice shy.” We have been too, but this makes us resilient and aware of a lot of things that others who have not gone through experiences like ours would not notice. I’ve been reading these from the top down, and I had not read your story until I got to it. I am understand and know how you feel about apostasy in the church. The late Harold Lindsell, who wrote The Battle for the Bible and the excellent commentary for The Harper Study Bible New American Standard Bible I’ve used for about thirty years, saw the trends of a liberal and apostate Protestantism creeping into the churches through the seminaries of this nation back thirty years ago, and with this the various heresies we see today even among what have been traditionally Mainline Protestant denominations. So I understand you fully when you are concerned that The Harbinger might be one of these. I tell you it is not.
What’s more, I give you my word of honor before Christ whom I serve with a clear conscience before God; that neither Beth Israel, Hope of the World Ministries, the Arise and Shine Academy (where I teach by God’s calling and grace), or the Beth Israel Jerusalem Center – none of these institutions and parts of the overall different ministries preach, teach, or expound any New Age or Esoteric false teachings. None. Jonathan Cahn and the ministerial Staff at Beth Israel would take immediate action to stop it dead in its tracks if they were to find anything remotely in any way teaching false doctrines of men. This I know for certain. J
Lavoice thomas says:
You stated you and Cahn had a 75 minute discussion on air in Apr 2012. I would like to watch the exchange but have been unable to find the event. Can you direct me to where I might view this discussion. Thanks
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Try to watch the Isaiah 9:10 Judgment and the other messages of The Harbinger topical series. These too will add to the information you seek. Again, if Mr. James, the critics of The Harbinger, and the people on this list knew what we know the message of The Harbinger, and had the understanding of what it actually says, there would be no controversy. The controversy is in the misunderstanding of it being something else, something sinister, something cryptic, or foreign, or even New Age. The Harbinger is not The Shack, nor is it Left Behind, or The Late Great Planet Earth, which I read as a young Christian and instantly became enthralled with Hal Lindsey back then. This is when he had black hair, so you get an idea how long ago this was.
It saddens me that so many people, Mr. James and his associates included, have so misunderstood Rabbi Cahn. I am very saddened by this, because I know that the teachings of Pastor and Messianic Rabbi are Mainline Protestant Evangelical, not New Age or Gnostic, as some have incorrectly alleged. Before coming to faith in Christ, I had dabbled in Spiritualism and the Occult, and believe me, none of that is permitted or allowed at Beth Israel Jerusalem Center or the Arise and Shine Academy.
Yes – and I deal with the title of many of his messages in my book.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Yes you do, and you get every one of them wrong, because you presume to attach them to what you think they’re about, and you are completely wrong. Why you do this is beyond me, because it ruins your credibility. All anyone has to do is obtain any one of the titles you assail in your book, and listen to it, and they’ll understand why you’ve so misunderstood and misapplied your warnings. What can I say?
Looks like it may have been moved. I will get that fixed or post another link. Thanks for letting me know.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Yes, the link was not working the last time I tried accessing it. It’s like some of the links on Brannon Howse’s site Worldview Weekend. I believe one needs a subscription to his site in order to access archived podcasts of earlier broadcasts. I’m glad I was able to download the infamous Jimmy DeYoung interview with Brannon House where Jimmy DeYoung trashed The Harbinger and Jonathan Cahn without having read the book or met or spoken with the man. Amazing. Truly amazing. I have written down the entire interview and I believe I have posted it on my website if memory serves me correctly.
Alf says:
It would have been helpful if Cahn’s website had a statement of beliefs. As it is I came across one message that I thought problematic. Message 1495 Mysteries of the Secret Israelis:
“If you’re born again you’re not only a citizen of Israel – you’re a secret Israeli – Discover the fascinating revelations of who you really are in God!”
I think that Jan (Markell) and Dr Reagan dropped the ball with Cahn. They shouldn’t have lumped all discernment ministries in the same bucket simply because they have concerns regarding Mr Cahn.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Alf, there you go again with Jan Markell. No they did not drop the ball. I can tell you this because if any of the things any of you allege here were true, my wife and I would not be part of Beth Israel, let alone be members, or take an active part in ministry there. Even in the church we got married in years go, we were not members, and for a long time, no place that we visited or worshipped in, did we become members. We were very, very, careful with churches, and still are, especially with all of the apostasy that is taking place.
Trust me when I tell you, and I do so before the Lord who knows the hearts of men, that Jonathan Cahn and the staff at Beth Israel are also aware of these trends. We are not NAR (New Apostolic Reformation), nor are we part of Dominionism, since the kingdom of God will be established at Christ’s return, not by political change and Christians leading the charge. It sounds nice, but it’s like trying to force God’s hand through works. Doesn’t work, because God is the One who should take the lead, not man; and Dominionism is man taking the lead and dragging God along the way. This is not the Great Commission, it is a Christian version of the Tower of Babel. Jonathan Cahn knows this, just as I do, and so do the ministerial staff at Beth Israel and Hope of the World Ministries. So I would ask everyone to please give it a rest, and start treating your brothers and my brother in Christ like brothers in Christ and put your swords back in their sheaths.
John H. says:
What are Jonathan Cahn’s credentials? His bio info on his web site doesn’t give any indication as to his biblical training. Did he go to Bible college or seminary?
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: I believe, but I am not certain which or if both; Pastor and Messianic Rabbi holds his ordination from the Messianic Alliance of America and the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations. Is this important to you? Does one need “biblical training” – or is it as the Scriptures say prophetically:
“All your sons will be taught of the Lord;
And the well-being of your sons will be great.
(Isaiah 54:13)
They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
(Jeremiah 31:34)
And Our Lord Jesus Christ has declared about the office and work of the Holy Spirit in the believer:
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.”
(John 6:44-45)
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.
(1John 2:20)
What is it we all know? We know the Lord, just as the prophecy of Jeremiah says. And we know His teaching, because the veil is lifted from our eyes by the Holy Spirit of God who is our Intercessor, our Comforter, and our Teacher, for it says:
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
(1John 2:27)
This is the phenomenon of the New Birth and the advent of the Spirit of God upon and within the born again believer, and the establishment of the New Covenant in Christ. That we will all know God, that we will be taught of God, that we will all have our sins forgiven, and that our well-being in Him will be great because of the grace of God in Jesus Christ.
There was a time when people needed the Scriptures to be taught and made sense of by competent men who were experts of matters of the Law and its interpretation, such as the time of Ezra, where it says:
They read from the book, from the law of God, translating to give the sense so that they understood the reading.
(Ezra 8:8)
This is because most of the Israelites did not speak or read the Hebrew Language in which the Law was written, they spoke and read Aramaic, so in order to meet this need, Ezra appointed men who were experts in these disciplines who spoke and read fluently both Hebrew and Aramaic, and could translate and make sense of what the Scripture said. They needed these translators and teachers for two reasons; they couldn’t read or write Hebrew and the Holy Spirit had not descended upon all flesh (that would happen after the cross at Pentecost and has been happening since, otherwise people would not be coming to Christ in our day)
But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where (the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
(2Corinthians 3:14-18)
The Apostle Paul in the Holy Spirit describes this spiritual wisdom and insight that the Holy Spirit imparts to the believers of his day, and just as He imparts it to us today, if we but submit to His will and study and read the Scriptures so that He who lifts the veil from our eyes and imparts to us the knowledge of His Word and provides that the eyes of our understanding may be opened; may teach us all things from His Word. In this the mysteries of God’s kingdom – of which Jonathan Cahn speaks often, and Cessationists like David James has so much trouble with – are revealed just as Paul writes:
And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; but just as it is written,
“Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him.”
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.
(1Corinthians 2)
Cessationist Theology is in my opinion one of the great heresies of our age, and a clear sign that we are in the last days. It is an outgrowth and development of the Enlightenment that has infiltrated the seminaries of Europe and now Post-Modern America. It has destroyed the faith of many believers and made them disbelievers – not unbelievers, but disbelievers – by convincing many of them whom have succumbed to its influence that the power of God and many of the works of the Holy Spirit ended, when in fact they are at work in the lives of those who live and experience them among God’s people. No one would come to Christ if not for the Holy Spirit and His continued work in the Gospel. “For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” (Revelation 19:10) The Acts of the Apostles didn’t end with the Apostolic Age of the Second Temple Era, is being experienced and lived to this very hour and will be until the return of Christ, but it isn’t being written in the cannon of Scripture at this time, but in heaven. We are the living letters and testimonies of the continuing work of Christ in our age. Just as it says:
So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure. Do all things without grumbling or disputing.
(Philippians 2:12-14)
Tell me John, do you believe in the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer? Do you believe in the Scriptures and what they teach about this? Do you believe in the prophecy which states that God would pour out His Spirit upon all flesh? I think you do. So, why would you and by passive admission here as moderator to his website and this discussion, bring up whether or not someone is credentialed? Why even bring this up, since the discussion supposedly is supposed to be not of a personal nature – that’s what David James claims, right? – and it is supposed to be about a book; so why bring this up in this discussion, if it is not personal?
And why in light of what the Scriptures teach about this, and in light that it appears that seminary has made Mr. James a clear Cessationist, and therefore disqualifies him according the what the clear teaching of God’s Word is on such matters regarding the various offices and gifts of the Holy Spirit and the prophecy about this regarding the end times; and the fact that many of what used to be the finest Mainline Christian seminaries in our country over a period of thirty years have become increasingly liberal towards God’s Word and the most cherished and fundamental tenets of the Christian faith – in light of all of the above; is it important to you or anyone else on this page whether or not a person is credentialed? And Pastor Cahn is credentialed to pastor his church by the way.
I’m not aware of any formal training – but that I can’t say for sure. I’m fairly certain he has no rabbinical training – which raises issues some people’s minds about the use of “rabbi” as a title.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Again David, you are wrong, though only cautiously as I detect from what you wrote above, as well as you should be, because you do not know do you, so you can’t give an opinion either way. It is interesting how you claim not to make your polemic against this man and his book personal, but you degenerate it to a personal level by first allowing Pastor Cahn’s credentials to be put into question (remember, you are moderator content on your website, I am not), and then you make your own replies to these comments yourself in continuation of a discussion that has taken a turn towards a personal nature. Interesting.
toni says:
Shemitah díd not happen, as Cahn keeps saying, so for sure he is not a man of God. Jesus commanded not to call anyone a rabbi (Matthew 23:8), but Cahn is called so with his approval. To believe that America was founded by Christians is to be ignorant of History at best.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Toni, with all due respect; what you write here does not deserve to be replied to. You don’t know the slightest thing about what you are talking about. America was founded by Christians; the United States that sits upon the continent that was first colonized and founded by Christians was founded by a mixture of Christians and Masons, some of whom also professed the Christian faith. Now there is difference of opinion about just how much of a Christian some of those who professed both the Christian faith and belonged Masonic Lodges were. That is debatable, and those who are truly objective regarding this topic, will say as I say, we will all know for certain some day in our future when the Lord has us all stand before Him at the resurrection of the righteous.
Faith aka Connie says:
I suggest that some people who post here should be a little more cautious about denouncing a fellow believer as “not a man of God” and making a man an offender for a word. And to say that America was NOT founded by Christians is unbelievably ignorant. Pilgrims, Puritans.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: Right on Connie. The following Scripture is brought to memory which says:
For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith; if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching; or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.
Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love; give preference to one another in honor; not lagging behind in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, persevering in tribulation, devoted to prayer, contributing to the needs of the saints, practicing hospitality.
(Romans 12:3-13)
I would not judge him as a not personally being a “man of God” – the Lord knows the heart. The decision to threaten bringing a lawsuit against a fellow believer, particularly one that has no legal merit, doesn’t put him in a great position, though.
However, aside from this, because of the innumerable problems, it can be said with confidence that The Harbinger is not a message from God – although I don’t doubt that He has used it to His own glory.
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: We have addressed that above, and 1Corinthians 6 does not apply in this or any civil case, because of the reasons cited above. To do so would be to do the context and application of what the Apostle Paul wrote in the Holy Spirit a serious disservice. You believe it is not a message from God because you do not believe that God speaks any longer. Your Cessationist beliefs betray this prejudice and false doctrine. It contradicts the clear prophecy of Scripture regarding the last days and what other Scripture say about certain aspects of Eschatology and events prophesied in Joel, Daniel, Revelation, and other prophetic books of the Bible.
The Harbinger is a novel based upon a series of topical messages about current events and history given over a ten year period. What is discussed in them happened. It was not an invention of Jonathan Cahn’s nor was it things that he pieced together. He simply reports what occurred, the dates they occurred, and other elements within these events of historical significance. You and others have attached to these more meanings than even Jonathan Cahn has. I know that you have done this in order change and manipulate the narrative of the story in order to ascribe to it meanings other than those intended by its author. This is intellectually dishonest.
Your use of a lot more material from Rabbi Cahn’s book for your own without his permission is a slap in the face. It is not how a brother in Christ ought to have treated another whom he respects; a peer and fellow minister of God’s Word. Ah, but then again, like you write above, you’re not sure about his legitimacy as a minister. Your own words have ensnared you. You claim you say one thing, then you turn around and contradict it by saying another. Are you a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways David? Just asking. Do you struggle with this? A lot of people do.
I assume she is referring the Founding Fathers and the deep masonic influences, which you have noted extensively on your own site, referencing Chris Pinto, if I recall correctly. It would probably be best to seek a bit of clarification rather than quickly throwing around things like, “unbelievably ignorant” as she is undoubtedly aware of the Pilgrims and Puritans (who actually did have their own serious theological issues in a variety of areas).
MY REPLY-CLARIFICATION: I would suppose that just about anyone who has a theological disagreement with you are among those whom you classify as “having serious theological issues.” I disagree with the Socialist approach the first year of the Virginia settlement, because as we can see even from Scripture, that the commune Socialist approach has never worked. It didn’t work at the Nazarene Community in Jerusalem during the Apostolic/Second Temple Era, nor has worked anywhere else where it has been put to use.
As for the deep Masonic influences, not all of the Founders were Masons, and of those who were, George Washington exhibited both in his speech and writings as well as his temperate ways unquestionable Christian characteristics which some have been led to believe that he was a Christian, though others have issues with being a Mason and his avoidance of the Sacrament of the Lord’s Supper when the colonies were still under British rule. There is debate as to whether or not he did ever take communion later when the colonies gained their independence from Great Britain. Thank you for this discussion. Now please prayerfully consider the suggestions I have made before you and your colleagues do anything else.
SIDEBAR: Below is an interesting write-up I discovered on the topic of the gifts and manifestations of the Holy Spirit. It is interesting that those who do not believe in these can cite chapter and verse (which they twist) to justify their personal theological disbelief in these gifts today, but will insist that God does not change, and His Word cannot be contradicted, and that His Holy Spirit is still indwelling each born again believer to this day, and then are selective as to dictate to us and to God what it is and is not that the Holy Spirit does and when He does it. It never amazes me how the clear teaching of Scripture can be so mangled by the thought processes of men developed into clever theologies and theories and codified to justify these under the guise of proper Biblical teaching. JB
by Manfred Kober
Faith Pulpit
Faith Baptist Theological Seminary
Ankeny, Iowa
April 1988
Spiritual Gifts: Essential, Expedient or Extra-Biblical?
Manfred E. Kober, Th.D.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
American Christianity today is characterized by an undue emphasis on spiritual gifts on the one hand and a great misunderstanding of these gifts on the other hand. All of us are dismayed by the sad spectacle of evangelicalism in disarray in matters of spiritual gifts.
I. The Controversy Concerning The Gifts
A. Position #1
The Pentecostal viewpoint is that all gifts are still bestowed today. To claim that some gifts have ceased with the Apostles, say our Pentecostal friends, is tantamount to denying miracles. One might "as well say that salvation ceased with them" (Harold Horton, The Gifts of the Spirit , p. 30).
B. Position #2
Some individuals contend that all gifts have ceased, not just the so-called sign gifts. One friend writes, "It is the writer's belief that the present preoccupation with 'finding your gift' is an erroneous and dangerous trend, which if brought to its logical conclusion denies the sufficiency and authority of the Scriptures. There is no justification for the claim that every believer receives a gift at salvation or that gifts may be divided into the temporary and permanent" ("Seeing Gifts in Their Context," Baptist Bulletin, February 1984, p.7).
Is it really erroneous and dangerous to attempt to discover one's spiritual gift?
Gene Getz has popularized the concept that there are no spiritual gifts for today. He regrets having taught for years "that Christians must search for and try to discover their spiritual gifts in order to function in the body of Christ." His suggestion is that all spiritual gifts in the primary sense have ceased (Building Up One Another , p.9, italics in the original).
C. Position #3
Some evangelical friends teach that every Christian has one and only one spiritual gift. Over against this view, we would maintain that the Scriptures seem to teach that each believer has at least one gift but the Word of God does thereby not preclude the plurality of gifts for certain individuals. The Apostle Paul definitely evidenced a wide spectrum of gifts including that of apostleship ( Rom. 1:1), healing (Acts 19:11,12), tongues (1 Cor. 14:18 ), various miracles (2 Cor. 12:12 ), evangelism (Acts 14:21ff.), prophecy (Eph. 3:5ff.), as well as several other gifts.
D. Position #4
Many theologians differentiate between temporary and permanent gifts. Certain temporary gifts were for the establishment of the church, others gave evidence of the truthfulness of the apostolic message. Permanent gifts are seen for the edification of the church today. Merrill Unger observes: "Such miraculous sign-gifts were the special endowment of the apostles, as the God-ordained founders of Christianity. To the Corinthians Paul declared, 'The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles' (2 Cor. 12:12 , NASB)" (The Baptism and Gifts of the Holy Spirit , p. 138).
E. Position #5
Some leading evangelicals adopt a neutral stand toward sign gifts. These gifts are possible today but one should not make too much of them. For example, Billy Graham writes with ambivalence about the gifts of healings, miracles, and tongues: "If God chooses to give these gifts to some today we should always pray that they will be used 'for the common good' (1 Cor. 12:77) and the furtherance of the kingdom of God" (The Holy Spirit , p.179).
In a similar vein, Harold Lindsell urges evangelicals to "stress the infrequency of the sign gifts, while acknowledging that they do appear here and there from time-to-time" (The Holy Spirit in the Latter Days , p. 193). Which of these five positions is right? Are all? Are none?
II. The Cessation of Some Gifts
While Pentecostals would take issue would us at this point, it is not difficult to demonstrate that certain gifts have ceased. It is true that not any one text state that there are permanent and temporary gifts. However, the principle of temporary gifts can be inferred from the following biblical features.
A. The qualifications of an Apostle in Acts 1:21–27:
When a successor was chosen to Judas, the qualifications of an apostle were clearly stated. He had to be an individual who had been with Christ from His baptism, accompanied Him for three years, witnessed His resurrection and as apostle ("One sent"), been personally commissioned by the Lord. Which Mormon apostle claims to have been around since the baptism of our Lord in A.D. 29?
B. The observation of the writer to the Hebrews:
In Hebrews 2:3–4 the writer reflects on the apostles who as first generation Christians had their message authenticated by special sign gifts: "God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will." Very possibly the ability to speak in tongues and the gift of healing were among these gifts. All these authenticating gifts had ceased when Hebrews was written before A.D. 70.
C. The transitory character of gifts in 1 Corinthians 13:8:
Paul wrote that certain gifts would cease: "Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they shall be rendered inoperative; if there are tongues, they shall cease on their own account; if there is knowledge, it shall be rendered inoperative" (literal translation). The strong inference of the verse is that at the time when someone causes prophecy and knowledge to pass away (the same passive verb is used for both gifts) at the time the use of tongues will have ceased. The time is the foundation of the church, which is built on apostles and prophets (Eph. 2:20 ). With the conclusion of the New Testament canon in approximately A.D. 96, no further prophetic revelations were given (Rev. 22:18).
Though Pentecostals consider us a "harmful class of 'unbelievers'"…. . . who "dispensationalize or spiritualize or naturalize" the gifts (Horton, p. 196), biblical testimony bears out our position on temporary gifts.
III. The Continuation of Some Gifts
Does every believer today have at least one gift? Based on the following considerations, this conclusion cannot be avoided.
A. The indications from Scripture:
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal (1 Cor. 12:7)
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ (Eph. 4:7).
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will (1 Cor. 12:11 ).
As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God" (1 Pet. 4:10).
B. The implications of the baptism of the Spirit:
In the immediate context of the bestowal of spiritual gifts we find reference to the baptism of the Spirit. Every believer is baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13 ), and the same Spirit bestows on every believer a gift (1 Cor. 12:11 ). Every baptized believer is gifted. If baptism by the Spirit is for today, then so are the gifts from the Spirit. At the moment of salvation the Spirit immerses the believer into the body, He implants him into a special place in the body, He imparts to him a gift (or gifts), and He impels him by His power to be active as a part of that body.
C. The inference from the metaphor of the body:
In 1 Corinthians 12 Paul describes the church as a physical body. The Holy Spirit gives each new believer a special place in the body and a special faculty to function in that body. For the body to function efficiently, gifted individuals are essential. Without spiritual gifts, spiritual growth in the body is impossible (Eph. 4:12,16). Without gifts the body is unfunctioning, uncooperative and unproductive. Without gifts there is no concord, care and concern (1 Cor. 12:25,26).
Those who argue that all gifts have ceased emphasize that maturity is what counts. It is true enough that the Scriptures speak of personal maturity (2 Tim. 3:17 ). It is also true that they emphasize the maturity of the body brought about by the exercise of gifts (Eph. 4:12ff.). In A.D. 63 the Holy Spirit still pleads through Peter that everyone use his spiritual gift, that speaking or serving, to minister to others and to magnify the Lord (1 Pet. 4:10–12). In obedience to our ascended Lord may we employ our gifts to edify the saints and exalt our Savior.
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